S50/S52 swap... is it worth it?

[bzboardz]

good thread. im in the same possition as OP. good read

[ck_taft325is]

Yes.

[bimmerteck]

yes!
borrow a E36M, change the oil and immediately go on track.

check your oil at the end of track day, it will be watery and BLACK.

MMMMMMMMM delicious M power cooking!

What "cooks" the oil is the heat on the track, the reason the s54 motors don't "cook" the oil as easily is the factory oil cooler. :up:

[Bimmerman325i]

I need to get an oil cooler, at the end of the last track day my lifter tick reappeared, probably from the oil going bad.

[dinanm3atl]

basically, do the math:

S52 swap (parts 3k)
s52 NA bolt on mods $3k easy (1.5k cams, .6k chips, .25k intake, .6k exhaust)

then u have a 6K S52. guess what; S54 costs the same and will walk you :) and will walk dyno tuned catless STi's on the freeway on 5 cylinders.

OK I am doing the math...

M52 + Turbo.

Plus the S54 motor alone is 6K so your 'math' might be a little bit off. What about trans? What about tuning? Parts to install? Sorry but an S54 is not the best or even close to the best swap candidate at this point.

[bimmerteck]

OK I am doing the math...

M52 + Turbo.

Plus the S54 motor alone is 6K so your 'math' might be a little bit off. What about trans? What about tuning? Parts to install? Sorry but an S54 is not the best or even close to the best swap candidate at this point.

QFT- S54 swap ran just under to 12k to do right, Euro s50b32 is at 6k-ish ATM and isn't done yet but could easily come to 8k before it's complete and running

[M-technik-3]

Or buy Joey's and everything for the most part is included if you have deep pockets.

Is it worth it? I say that really depends on if you plan to keep your E30 for any reasonable length of time.

[fsmtnbiker]

yes!
borrow a E36M, change the oil and immediately go on track.

check your oil at the end of track day, it will be watery and BLACK.

MMMMMMMMM delicious M power cooking!

Huh?

Maybe if you've got a bunch of blowby. My oil has a school day and 2 autocrosses on it, as well as about 2000 street miles. It's a nice golden color.

VANOS does not "cook" oil. It's a hydralic piston that moves back and forth, not much to it.

[328ijunkie]

2500 labor? I charge a decent bit less than that.

[nando]

VANOS does not "cook" oil. It's a hydralic piston that moves back and forth, not much to it.

You're crazy. Vanos has a built in turbo, because turbo's also cook oil as part of their function. Duh. :p

[Bimmerman325i]

OK I am doing the math...

M52 + Turbo.

Plus the S54 motor alone is 6K so your 'math' might be a little bit off. What about trans? What about tuning? Parts to install? Sorry but an S54 is not the best or even close to the best swap candidate at this point.

Um, when was the last time you looked at prices?

S54+6spd+DME+wiring goes for $3500-$5k all day long nowadays. Add $3k for the ABL or Bimmerworld electronics kit, and you have a bolt-in S54 running in your car for $6-8k. Of course, you need exhaust, but you need that for an S50/2 swap also so for cost comparisons it can be ignored.

S54 is a very very attractive swap candidate. For the cost of an S50/2 swap + bolt ons or S50/2 swap + used supercharger, you have more horsepower, more reliable engine, less weight(vs FI), and a much better track motor.

[Jav3]

Wow, this thread went longer than I thought it would. Good read.

[Bimmerman325i]

Must have stumbled onto some secret as I know cars with those mods or very similar and they are not making the same power. As said before that exhaust cost almost as much as a used S/C kit so outside of making a bunch of noise it just is not worth spending that money. This is not typical gains for N/A bolt on mods.




Shoot. I want to know where all these 300hp S52s are that only have basic bolt-ons. And on top of that again... you will spend as much in N/A bolt-ons that supposedly get you to 300hp(or more) as it would to buy a used supercharger. I have heard of now 1 supposed '300hp' S52 and it is right here on this forum. All the E36 M3s are not putting down 245hp from basic bolt ons and the amount of money spent for that mod list is just too much for what you are getting.

Also the other thing to consider is I have seen a stock late model car put down 218 before. Thus considering if you got another strong factory motor your 'gains' are not as much as the estimation. There are plenty of threads on bf.c talking about the kind of gains you can see and what you can do. 300hp means cams for almost anyone you ask.

And yes. The N/V had this time period when everyone had a hard on for it but that time has passed. It isn't THAT great. I wouldn't waste your time on it. VANOS is a good thing.

Have you looked at dynos recently? I know of five or six dynojet 240-250whp S52s WITHOUT cams or as full/expensive exhaust as Chris has. That power range is pretty normal for a bolt on S52 without cams. WITH cams (Schrick-Sunbelt-Sunbelt Race-Evosport), the same motors do ~260-300whp, all NA. Granted, 260whp is much more drivable than 300whp, but my point is that cams are absolutely not needed for 300 NA crank horsepower.

I can provide dyno sheets that aren't Chris's motor if you want.

[bimmerteck]

Um, when was the last time you looked at prices?

S54+6spd+DME+wiring goes for $3500-$5k all day long nowadays. Add $3k for the ABL or Bimmerworld electronics kit, and you have a bolt-in S54 running in your car for $6-8k. Of course, you need exhaust, but you need that for an S50/2 swap also so for cost comparisons it can be ignored.

S54 is a very very attractive swap candidate. For the cost of an S50/2 swap + bolt ons or S50/2 swap + used supercharger, you have more horsepower, more reliable engine, less weight(vs FI), and a much better track motor.

I'll admit even I could do it slightly cheaper the 2nd time around(hindsight's 20/20), but if you think you can do it for 6k feel free to try and let me know how it works out. I've done the s54 swap and totaled the receipts and it's getting more affordable all the time but it isn't that cheap quite yet. 8k-9k could be tight but quite possible if you got the donor motor cheap enough.

[nando]

please, share the dyno sheet of a 300whp S50. It must spin up to 8500rpm to keep the VE up high enough?

we all know dynojets are optimistic.

and naturally, you're still using correction factors pulled from thin air to arrive at your 300hp crank with simple bolt ons. If you had an actual engine dyno, I'd be less skeptical.