what should I do to rev a m50 to 10k

[nando]

Can go 8,888rpm stock with this one for short bursts if desired.

The s54 cylinder head copies ducati's famous desimonic in a form for the bucketless springs. Small rocker arm like a Honda vtech actuallates the camshaft; this saves weight and allows extreme stability on top end.

Head makes the power, throttles can injest more air also, cams and valvetrain is setup for top end.
No port nessacary; stock cams are incredibly aggressive. Crazy duration, crazy lift.

This motor is one attitude below 6,000 where the dual vanos is making torque happen via retardation of the Oem lumpy cams

From 6,000-8,000+ it is a complete different animal screaming and howling till you shift.

Velocity on top end acceleration is extreme with insane engine rpm's

You'll blow up an e36 euro motor faster at top end compared to s54 also; it's designed stouter; newer; smarter; better.

Last of the high rpm NA power 6cyl's

man, every time I see an S54, it makes me double think my own plans. what does one go for these days? is $4k reasonable?

[ogbimmer]

Bottom end limitations:








Top end limitations

I'm not sure there are many M5x engines that do fine past 7400 RPM or so. The oil pump likes to blow up, and there are nasty harmonics everywhere.

I think that if you were to get a custom vibration damper, lighten the rotating assembly, improve rod ratio, switch to a solid lifter valvetrain, that you could improve the chances your engine will stay together.

I believe Rebello Racing in CA has spun an S50 to around 8K with a lot of development work.

It would be cheaper to install an S54, though.

THanks :) finally something besides it all the its not possible to go past 7k comments.

[LJ851]

THanks :) finally something besides it all the its not possible to go past 7k comments.

You def can rev past 7, but 10k is looong way from there.

[Wanganstyle]

copies form; in Bucket-less operation of valves.

It does not copy the design. the design is too crazy for a car; its also patented.

[Wanganstyle]

THanks :) finally something besides it all the its not possible to go past 7k comments.

Local drag car to me takes a S52 to 8,000.
ON a LOT OF BOOST. 157 trap :)

no problems with the RPm's or the crank @ those rpm's - its everything else that goes on that car!!!!

man, every time I see an S54, it makes me double think my own plans. what does one go for these days? is $4k reasonable?

yes, if you want to risk a secondhand unit $4k is a reasonable buy in for a decent running one.

Management and electronics is prob best done with OEM S50b30 stuff for now unless handy with wiring and standalone, not accounting for Harness build cost (1-1.5K) and standalone (~2k) the main expense for my last S54 was Alpha-N Road mapping ($2k in fuel over 5 months).


If you wish to run Alpha-N, the mapping MUST be done in your car @ your car weight with your fuel on your roads. No real ways around this one unless one likes replacing S54's.


last time around the S54 tab was:

4.5k longmotor
1.5k misc items to pair with;

3-3.5k electronics

**option: $2k tuning if you are going non-OEM DME route.

~9-9.5K for OEM brain power S54
$11-11.5K for standalone brain power S54

++ install (diy if you are confident!)

Most likely pricing has come down slightly, but still probably an 8k operation or so currently. If you pull a freakshow craigslist special It may be done for 5-6k, but I have my doubts about trusting ANY secondhand motor...... at least for my intentions :D

[LJ851]

^^Don't tell Mercedes ! haha.

[jrdeamicis]

S54 is just a safer platform.

[nando]

Local drag car to me takes a S52 to 8,000.
ON a LOT OF BOOST. 157 trap :)

no problems with the RPm's or the crank @ those rpm's - its everything else that goes on that car!!!!




yes, if you want to risk a secondhand unit $4k is a reasonable buy in for a decent running one.

Management and electronics is prob best done with OEM S50b30 stuff for now unless handy with wiring and standalone, not accounting for Harness build cost (1-1.5K) and standalone (~2k) the main expense for my last S54 was Alpha-N Road mapping ($2k in fuel over 5 months).


If you wish to run Alpha-N, the mapping MUST be done in your car @ your car weight with your fuel on your roads. No real ways around this one unless one likes replacing S54's.


last time around the S54 tab was:

4.5k longmotor
1.5k misc items to pair with;

3-3.5k electronics

**option: $2k tuning if you are going non-OEM DME route.

~9-9.5K for OEM brain power S54
$11-11.5K for standalone brain power S54

++ install (diy if you are confident!)

Most likely pricing has come down slightly, but still probably an 8k operation or so currently. If you pull a freakshow craigslist special It may be done for 5-6k, but I have my doubts about trusting ANY secondhand motor...... at least for my intentions :D

I've already got standalone capable of doing dual vanos and basically anything I need to. I'd really only need the motor. tuning would probably run me around $500-1000 depending on how many hours I spend on a dyno (vanos tuning would be new to me and would take the longest).

the alternative would be to spend $5k on a 3.1 M20, for 100whp less... so you can see why it's on my radar. :)

so if it's $4500 for a motor, $1500 for "while i'm in there" and $1k for me to spend ~8 hours on a dyno, I'd be looking at $7k finished. I'd still need to tune a $5k M20 and it wouldn't have dual vanos and 333bhp. I'd basically be looking at a $1000 cost differential. but I've got parts I'd sell that could offset that..

[jrdeamicis]

Wangan and I are starting to develop a more affordable swap option for the S54.

Only go forward, never backwards.

[e30polak]

Forgive me if I'm wrong nando, but don't you have an IX?

If so factor in a custom oil pan, and some form of help to the oiling system for the decreased capacity.

Oh, and also since you track your car, factor in ARP rod bolts and coated rod bearings. If not, it would only be a matter of time before your motor to goes BOOM like Bruce's race car on s14. The uprated, later model bearings aren't even good enough for the track...

[nando]

yes

oil pan is no biggie, but extra oil capacity is important. I'd consider replacing the bearings/bots as you say (since it's a used motor).

but still, really. is it worth it for me to do another M20? the only real drawback of an S54 is it weighs more.

[Wanganstyle]

for real racing, the OEM oil pump is not even good enough for the S54.
Nor is a VAC modified extra high output S54 OEM oil pump.

S54 needs dry sump to utilize its full rev range on track with a proper chassis.

Locally A VAC powerplant with wet sump and vac pump shot rod out the side in fully prepped car, now it has a full dry sump.

S54+REAL track only car worthy of a S54 for full battle+ wet sump in battle = dead S54 :(

I've already got standalone capable of doing dual vanos and basically anything I need to. I'd really only need the motor. tuning would probably run me around $500-1000 depending on how many hours I spend on a dyno (vanos tuning would be new to me and would take the longest).

the alternative would be to spend $5k on a 3.1 M20, for 100whp less... so you can see why it's on my radar. :)

so if it's $4500 for a motor, $1500 for "while i'm in there" and $1k for me to spend ~8 hours on a dyno, I'd be looking at $7k finished. I'd still need to tune a $5k M20 and it wouldn't have dual vanos and 333bhp. I'd basically be looking at a $1000 cost differential. but I've got parts I'd sell that could offset that..

Yes. 6 pistons, 6 rods, headwork add up FAST. Built motor costs Built motor money :)

Vanos mapping is annoying in time consumption but all gain coming from non-vvti world..........

if your chassis already has the standalone running, than you are set. Are you running a Link G4? I am considering that unit on my next powerplant, I have a very good tuner local I have used in the past; he is Link West coast usa.

yes

oil pan is no biggie, but extra oil capacity is important. I'd consider replacing the bearings/bots as you say (since it's a used motor).

but still, really. is it worth it for me to do another M20? the only real drawback of an S54 is it weighs more.

Bearings and ARP bolts and gaskets- YES.

Weight of S54 is noticable when it replaces a S52. Even when I removed the AC condensor, AC compressor, AUX fan on the E36m, the S52 weight was still felt- its most noticed while trail braking, or turn in post apex- Also in slalom areas.

I want to use the block positioning for the front sump engine arms and shove S54 into the firewall of my E36 track build....we will see.

I worry about e30+ s54 simply bc of the nose weight, the rear of the car is so light its already struggling for traction in stock form lol

my e36 was a bit better 48f/52% rear bias weight (sedan m3)

[nando]

my car isn't even close to a "real" race car, so I guess that saves me a bit of money. I think I'd be more concerned with adding some extra capacity. I just want to be able to safely rev to say, 7900. does it come with an oil cooler stock?

MS3.. dual vanos support is new. it can do 4 individualy mappable VVT outputs now.. there's somebody running it on an S65. nuts!

[nrubenstein]

The S54 does come with an oil cooler stock, but it isn't big enough for track use. Back in my novice tracking days, I was still seeing 270+ oil temps. That's too hot for the VANOS.

While the motor isn't up to really serious track use, I think it would be OK in an iX chassis. It's not like you're going to pull anything like the turning force of a real E46 M3 track car. For one thing, you won't have anywhere near the same amount of tire for about the same weight. And that's before we get into geometry.

[nando]

exactly. I've 235's on my car right now, I don't think I can realistically fit more than that without spending exponential dollars. plus, 95% of the time I'm just daily driving it.

so, upgraded oil cooler and expanded oil capacity (beyond the ix's standard 5 quarts) are neccesary.