24 Lb Inj. and TRM< 21.5 Inj and TMS real world tests.

[e30polak]

Off the shelf 24# injector tunes for non-cammed s5x engines have proven to run rich up top, killing top end power. I HATED my TMS chip for the 3.5" MAF and 24# injectors. Tried a TRM chip for the same mods and liked it better than the conforti unit.

After all was said and done, I had Osh at RMS dyno tune my car and I made 8whp and 6wtq (232whp/228wtq) more then my TMS chip (224whp/222wtq) WITH 24# injectors. The AFRs were much cleaner with the custom tune, the car made more torque earlier, and pulled much harder in the top end.

This was all for my OBD1 s52 with 24# injectors, 3.5" MAF, eBay headers, single 2.5" exhaust, 13# Fidanza flywheel, and 3.46 gears + ZF320 trans.

[BMW_TUNER]

Interesting to here it can go both ways. I wish I had acess to a good indy tuner or large shop but euro is a rare up here. If it aint a-merkin it ain't shit in Reno.

On a separate note is there any reason to buy a 506 DME or is it identical to the 413 I have? I know that both work but I am wondering if one is better? I think I am going to buy a set of rebuilt flow matched pink tops for $200 does that sound crazy?

[Wanganstyle]

I totally agree that it is possible to tune 24lbs down in theory bu without afr's there is no way to know if the TRM is doing it or not. It appears that my setup is not as good as my brothers so I am going to move towards a known good setup at altitude, the TMS with 21.5. I could probably pick up a TMS chip to work with my injectors but I would rather scale down the injectors and pick up some fresh ones anyway. there is nothing wring with my injectors or chip I just think they are not an ideal combo for altitude.

Time to install AFR Gauge!!! Timing will be huge for power though, one cannot with ass dyno distinguish between 13.5:1 afr or 13:1.

to bad no MAP/Baro sensor OEM, that would take the elevation out of the equation-

[nando]

Does mss43 have a map sensor? Mss54 does. Not really needed with a maf system though..

[Lakis]

Pardon me, but I am confused. I have a 99' S52 and I live at 6000 feet in Park City UTAH.
I too am OBD1 now, Shrick cams, 24lb injectors, Turner MS did my software. 2.5 Exhaust, cast headers, small single turbo cat, fidanza flywheel 3.73 gearing 5 speed trans. I didn't do the injectors right away and the dyno said I was running lean; I apparently was told that putting the tester in the rear exhaust rather than BEFORE the oxygen sensor was a false read..

I feel the car is faster since the switch. I will say when I get up to 8000 feet + (mountain drives) the engine gets heat soaked faster and doesn't run as well.
BUT, I feel the altitude ABSOLUTELY makes a difference. If I go to Salt Lake which is 2000 feet lower; the exhaust sounds different and I can break the tires much easier.

I would do anything (short of a turbo) to bypass the altitude issue.

[Mr.SWISS]

I have 24# 4 pintle SVT gen 3 (plastic body slims) on my S52, 3.5" MAF, OBD2 Dinan Tune. Runs good so far but I plan on using my homies wideband to scope the AFR's before I go stompin the pedal. Last thing I want is a lean condition after all the time and grip I got sunk in this bitch.

[5mall5nail5]

Seems very unscientific. I'd get a vbox or dyno.

[Wanganstyle]

Pardon me, but I am confused. I have a 99' S52 and I live at 6000 feet in Park City UTAH.
I too am OBD1 now, Shrick cams, 24lb injectors, Turner MS did my software. 2.5 Exhaust, cast headers, small single turbo cat, fidanza flywheel 3.73 gearing 5 speed trans. I didn't do the injectors right away and the dyno said I was running lean; I apparently was told that putting the tester in the rear exhaust rather than BEFORE the oxygen sensor was a false read..

I feel the car is faster since the switch. I will say when I get up to 8000 feet + (mountain drives) the engine gets heat soaked faster and doesn't run as well.
BUT, I feel the altitude ABSOLUTELY makes a difference. If I go to Salt Lake which is 2000 feet lower; the exhaust sounds different and I can break the tires much easier.

I would do anything (short of a turbo) to bypass the altitude issue.

When you dyno'ed did the operator used an in house calibrated AFR gauge? They should have a tail pipe in house item, just like a smog dyno.

Tail pipe sniffer can tell correct afr if setup correctly. Dyno shop should be doing this for you.

Altitude issue comes with an NA engine. The most realistic NA solution would be adding variable valve timing on the exhaust cam, as the s52 only has variable camshaft on intake side. Since your car is currently obd1, you could buy the dual vanos controller from Seattle circuit and swap out cams+single vanos to dual vanos camshafts and dual vanos unit.


Converting to dual vanos or installing a dual vanos engine (ideally s54) would allow more torque to be extracted under the curve. Not saying this will negate the issues of NA engine+altitude; but you would have more torque to break tires free. Aftermarket cams are avail for m54b30, and the s52 bottom end+head is more stout and higher performance in some ways...


Standalone engine management with a MAP/barometric meter would also allow a higher level of engine performance according to altitude. You can have multiple map sensors and use for things like ram air, itb or twin turbos, etc.

[digger]

Pardon me, but I am confused. I have a 99' S52 and I live at 6000 feet in Park City UTAH.
I too am OBD1 now, Shrick cams, 24lb injectors, Turner MS did my software. 2.5 Exhaust, cast headers, small single turbo cat, fidanza flywheel 3.73 gearing 5 speed trans. I didn't do the injectors right away and the dyno said I was running lean; I apparently was told that putting the tester in the rear exhaust rather than BEFORE the oxygen sensor was a false read..

I feel the car is faster since the switch. I will say when I get up to 8000 feet + (mountain drives) the engine gets heat soaked faster and doesn't run as well.
BUT, I feel the altitude ABSOLUTELY makes a difference. If I go to Salt Lake which is 2000 feet lower; the exhaust sounds different and I can break the tires much easier.

I would do anything (short of a turbo) to bypass the altitude issue.

higher altitude makes a huge difference to power because of reduced air density but the car shouldn't run richer/leaner because the MAF sensor accounts for the different density. This is what Nando was saying.

[Mr.SWISS]

When you dyno'ed did the operator used an in house calibrated AFR gauge? They should have a tail pipe in house item, just like a smog dyno.

Tail pipe sniffer can tell correct afr if setup correctly. Dyno shop should be doing this for you.

Altitude issue comes with an NA engine. The most realistic NA solution would be adding variable valve timing on the exhaust cam, as the s52 only has variable camshaft on intake side. Since your car is currently obd1, you could buy the dual vanos controller from Seattle circuit and swap out cams+single vanos to dual vanos camshafts and dual vanos unit.


Converting to dual vanos or installing a dual vanos engine (ideally s54) would allow more torque to be extracted under the curve. Not saying this will negate the issues of NA engine+altitude; but you would have more torque to break tires free. Aftermarket cams are avail for m54b30, and the s52 bottom end+head is more stout and higher performance in some ways...


Standalone engine management with a MAP/barometric meter would also allow a higher level of engine performance according to altitude. You can have multiple map sensors and use for things like ram air, itb or twin turbos, etc.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRK!

Pump the brakes Wang I got mad respect bro but you are spewin a bit a bullshit here.


You cannot convert to dual vanos without swapping th entire engine for an M52TU,M54 or M56/S54 (dual vanos). The blocks are different and the M/S5x engine family (single vanos) and are not interchangeable. The head and block on the DV engines have a very different head pattern.

[328ijunkie]

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRK!

Pump the brakes Wang I got mad respect bro but you are spewin a bit a bullshit here.


You cannot convert to dual vanos without swapping th entire engine for an M52TU,M54 or M56/S54 (dual vanos). The blocks are different and the M/S5x engine family (single vanos) and are not interchangeable. The head and block on the DV engines have a very different head pattern.

You could theoretically put a Dvanos unit on a Svanos head just fine. Yes the heads are different and all but the dvanos does bolt up and theoretically work if you swapped cams and all... :D

[Mr.SWISS]

You could theoretically put a Dvanos unit on a Svanos head just fine. Yes the heads are different and all but the dvanos does bolt up and theoretically work if you swapped cams and all... :D

:blowup:


Has anyone done this?!?!?! IDK if aftermarket 3.0 performance cams are more or less aggressive than stock S52 cams. What you may gain in top you lose in mid and low with a less aggressive grind.

Now if the S54 cams and DV will bolt right up in a S52 why hasn't anyone done this yet?

[dude8383]

You could theoretically put a Dvanos unit on a Svanos head just fine. Yes the heads are different and all but the dvanos does bolt up and theoretically work if you swapped cams and all... :D

This is really interesting... converting an S52 to dual vanos could be pretty darn cool.

I wonder if any of our crazy europeans have done this.

[Wanganstyle]

:blowup:


Has anyone done this?!?!?! IDK if aftermarket 3.0 performance cams are more or less aggressive than stock S52 cams. What you may gain in top you lose in mid and low with a less aggressive grind.

Now if the S54 cams and DV will bolt right up in a S52 why hasn't anyone done this yet?

I am sure there are Aftermarket dual vanos cams that will do the trick. OEM S52 cams are not that interesting honestly.

m54 is much more similar to s52. s54 is a wild animal, and quite different setup cylinder head. s54 will NOT AT ALL WORK.

I need to have both in front of me- M54 dual vanos mechanism seems to bolt to the cylinder head in a slightly different fashion than S52. perhaps S52 head is not cast/machined for a dual vanos mechanism, only a single vanos one......more to look into!!! the heads are very very very close in setup though- supposedly both intake and exhaust manifolds can be swapped-

the cams themselves will interchange in the trays (m54 dual vanos cams in s52 single vanos trays)

[Mr.SWISS]

I am sure there are Aftermarket dual vanos cams that will do the trick. OEM S52 cams are not that interesting honestly.

m54 is much more similar to s52. s54 is a wild animal, and quite different setup cylinder head. s54 will NOT AT ALL WORK.

I need to have both in front of me- M54 dual vanos mechanism seems to bolt to the cylinder head in a slightly different fashion than S52. perhaps S52 head is not cast/machined for a dual vanos mechanism, only a single vanos one......more to look into!!! the heads are very very very close in setup though- supposedly both intake and exhaust manifolds can be swapped-

the cams themselves will interchange in the trays (m54 dual vanos cams in s52 single vanos trays)

I know the cam trays are the same because the trays I am using in my S52 came from an M54/M52TU head. I have a blown M52TU I yanked out of moms e46 just sittin, and a spare M54 head with vanos. So I have 2 DV's just layin here and a set of M52TU cams.....

This seems like a easier way to go DV without all the M54 foolishness.

Talk to me.