It is possible?: Modified front subframe to run stock E36 oil pan

[Wishno87]

Could the front subframe be modified in an economical way to run a stock E36 pan and pickup? I would much rather buy a modified front subframe for 400$ and have larger oil capacity, more ground/pan clearance and cheaper oil pan than buy a 200$ E34 oil pan with smaller capacity and less ground clearance. If it were possible I think they would sell well because most people who have 24V swaps are also pretty low. I have no technical knowledge of the subject Im just wondering if it would even be possible. Yes I am aware that the sway bar would need to be moved like an E36 though. If anyone has any technical experience in this it would be great.

[JdmEuroNorth]

Seriously just buy the e34 oil pan.

It's not worth it, not even close.

Just the fact that you're asking is enough for me to say that you'll never have or get this done to your car. It's just completely unrealistic.

[Wishno87]

Seriously just buy the e34 oil pan.

It's not worth it, not even close.

Just the fact that you're asking is enough for me to say that you'll never have or get this done to your car. It's just completely unrealistic.

Someone has already made a subframe for rear sump oil pans. It requires the rear sump pan to be slightly modified as well though. What I am wondering is if there is space to make a subframe that will work with a drop in E36 pan. It has nothing to do with E34 pans being hard to come by. I have four. Its more for oil capacity and most importantly not smashing oil pans.

[gkobez]

Seriously just buy the e34 oil pan.

It's not worth it, not even close.

Just the fact that you're asking is enough for me to say that you'll never have or get this done to your car. It's just completely unrealistic.

Read his one year update. Wishno gets shit done.

I think it is doable but I think the people with the skills to do it haven't had the motivation or seen the need to re-address this problem.

[StereoInstaller1]

I would think the steering rack is the real issue

[nrubenstein]

Not unless you move the steering rack forward. There is lots of room, you just can't really take advantage of it without screwing with the suspension geometry.

Edit: That said, it's feasible that you could work around that. '96+ M3 control arms with offset bushings would shove the outer ball joint way forward. You could match that moving the steering rack forward and *probably* have enough clearance for an unmodified pan. You'd have a *ton* of caster and tire clearance issues, and you'd have to buy a lot of parts to make this work. I prefer the modified pan route.

[Wishno87]

I would think the steering rack is the real issue

Ya from what I can see from looking at an E36 undercarriage in order for the middle part of the subframe to be forward enough it would interfere with the placement of the steering rack.

I think if it were possible though someone could make a lot of money. It seems to be the biggest hurdle with E30 modification that once you have a swap you can't go low enough for your car to sit perfect yet still be DDable.

[Wishno87]

Not unless you move the steering rack forward. There is lots of room, you just can't really take advantage of it without screwing with the suspension geometry.

Edit: That said, it's feasible that you could work around that. '96+ M3 control arms with offset bushings would shove the outer ball joint way forward. You could match that moving the steering rack forward and *probably* have enough clearance for an unmodified pan. You'd have a *ton* of caster and tire clearance issues, and you'd have to buy a lot of parts to make this work. I prefer the modified pan route.

Moving the rack forward would also make bump steer even worse for really low cars right?

[nrubenstein]

Well, if you can match that movement with the control arm, I believe that you would be OK as far as bump steer goes. IIRC, you would get 1-1.5" of movement with the offset bushings AND '96 M3 control arms.

The real issue is that you'd have a ton of caster and some interesting tire clearance issues up front.

I'll freely admit that I'm speculating here. I don't think that this is a good idea. I think that relative to the cost of sourcing an E34 pan and then shoving in a skid plate, Tyler Timmel's work isn't that expensive.

[Wishno87]

Well, if you can match that movement with the control arm, I believe that you would be OK as far as bump steer goes. IIRC, you would get 1-1.5" of movement with the offset bushings AND '96 M3 control arms.

The real issue is that you'd have a ton of caster and some interesting tire clearance issues up front.

I'll freely admit that I'm speculating here. I don't think that this is a good idea. I think that relative to the cost of sourcing an E34 pan and then shoving in a skid plate, Tyler Timmel's work isn't that expensive.

Is he TinyT? Will he do standard E36 pans too? At this point I have the E34 pan shimmed up a bit with a really heavy duty skid plate but I'm have an M52 im putting in relatively soon and If I could go this route in some way that would be awesome.

[MattM]

IX subframe.... i have no idea how the suspension would work... IF it would work...

[nrubenstein]

Is he TinyT? Will he do standard E36 pans too? At this point I have the E34 pan shimmed up a bit with a really heavy duty skid plate but I'm have an M52 im putting in relatively soon and If I could go this route in some way that would be awesome.

I actually have a message in to him right now (he is TinyT) about a standard E36 pan, but there's no reason why he wouldn't. If anything, it should be easier. The S54 pan has a built in windage tray.

[nrubenstein]

IX subframe.... i have no idea how the suspension would work... IF it would work...

iX control arms will cost around $400 (the center balljoints are 100% incompatible). The iX steering rack has to be used, or you can source an E46 xi rack and create custom brackets (the mounting bolt spacing is different and there are some significant interference problems that may or may not be workable). AND, I still don't know that you can actually fit the unmodified E36 pan in there.

Modifying the pan and subframe would definitely cost less and it's easier.

[Wishno87]

I actually have a message in to him right now (he is TinyT) about a standard E36 pan, but there's no reason why he wouldn't. If anything, it should be easier. The S54 pan has a built in windage tray.

That would be great. Do you happen to know if a E36 pan in an E30 would sit higher than the subframe or pretty close? That would be excellent to be able to eliminate the heavy skid plate all together.

[nrubenstein]

The S54 pan is around the height of the subframe. IIRC a little above. I'll pull out the non-M pan to compare height and get back.

That said, even if you had to run a plate of some sort, it'd still be way better. AND you could make it structural by connecting to the control arm mounts. Way more interesting than tying the frame rail together in a place that basically doesn't matter.