FYI - some N52 oil pan research

[nando]

what do you mean limited tuning? I'm sure you could get it tuned. self tuning, yeah, that could be tough.

[hoveringuy]

The red line would be your accelerator cable and the red dot being a TPS. This way you can still use the valvetronic on a something like MS. All the while MS still thinks you are using a throttal body with a TPS.

I though the big issue with the new motors not working on aftermarket ECU is because of teh Valvetronic?

That gear is driven by a pinnion gear that needs to be driven off the stock actuator motor. Not terribly difficult to control that motor, but Megasquirt usually depends on manifold vacuum for the load signal so controlling valve lift directly destroys manifold vacuum, meaning Megasquirt would need a MAF (and you'd need a vacuum accumulator for the brakes..)

Easier to lock the valves at full lift and control power through the throttle body.

I'm all for the OEM ECU, but with all of the effort thrown at it look at how much it still costs to flash the S54.

[Massimo]

what do you mean limited tuning? I'm sure you could get it tuned. self tuning, yeah, that could be tough.

Yes self tuning. I love doing things my self and would rather fuck something up doing it my self then pay someone to do it properly. Cos I am that kinda person. lol

[evandael]

it would be less than optimal (read, utilizing all the engineering feats packed into the N52) but going off of the last page of posts, it seems you could run the N52 on MS3+ with a DBC throttle body and valvetronic locked at full lift.

mechanically, i wonder if the mount arms and block have similar bolt patterns as M52 motors so e36 mount arms and ZF transmissions could work. that and the original concern of this thread.. the oil pan.


not as advanced, but it would still be a lightweight, smooth and powerful motor, for relatively little money and with very few miles compared to most M/S5x's.

[Fusion]

Oil pan may be a problem, I posted links to gasket traces and the bolt pattern seems different.
Also arm bolt holes look to be further apart in the pics.

[Massimo]

Why not just fab up or get a oil pan fabed up. That seems like the least of the worries to me. But that is just me I supose.

[nando]

Yes self tuning. I love doing things my self and would rather fuck something up doing it my self then pay someone to do it properly. Cos I am that kinda person. lol

You live in the land of dirt cheap standalone ECUs. I'd just lock the cams and do it that way. :p

valvetronic is pretty dang cool, though. I wish the MS developers would be willing to support E-throttle. maybe hoveringuy could come up with something that would allow Valvetronic to work with MS3. ;)

Oil pan may be a problem, I posted links to gasket traces and the bolt pattern seems different.
Also arm bolt holes look to be further apart in the pics.

honestly, I think doing something like tinyT, and making a subframe to fit a rear-sump pan makes the most sense. the E34 M50 pan is pretty rediculous with how low it hangs out front for you RWD guys.

[Leo_328i]

it would be less than optimal (read, utilizing all the engineering feats packed into the N52) but going off of the last page of posts, it seems you could run the N52 on MS3+ with a DBC throttle body and valvetronic locked at full lift.

mechanically, i wonder if the mount arms and block have similar bolt patterns as M52 motors so e36 mount arms and ZF transmissions could work. that and the original concern of this thread.. the oil pan.


not as advanced, but it would still be a lightweight, smooth and powerful motor, for relatively little money and with very few miles compared to most M/S5x's.

In theory, E85 Z4 engine arms shoulddddddd work.

I believe the bolt patterns are different so E36 engine arms may not work.

[evandael]

found a couple good links for reading! there is some redundant material and you'll have to scroll around to get the most info, but check it out here:

http://billswebspace.com/2007%20Engine%20Mechanical.pdf

http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/e70/02b_E70%20Gasoline%20Engines.pdf

http://www.bawarec.ru/manuals/3er/e90/manuals-3er-e90-13.pdf

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/features/printer_960.shtml

so checklist here...

N52B30 (with 3-stage intake manifold)
E60 528xi oil pan
E85 Z4 mount arms w/ E28 535is or M5 mounts
E36/46 ZF 5 speed transmission (or Getrag 260)
^^respective flywheel/clutch/pilot bearing/clutch slave/starter/transmission mount setup
E36 M3/328is, E30 M3, early 325e, or stock E30 driveshaft
locked valvetronic (ummm how?)
OBD1 engine harness, knock sensors, DBW TB, etc
MS3+ ECU w/ innovate wideband

the electric waterpump would need to be sorted out. also, it's likely that you could retain the stock E30 booster due to the N52's smaller intake manifold. there are likely some other things to sort out like the fuel supply, the crankcase ventilation system (some wacky dual-mode based on driving condition/intake manifold pressure), the one-use aluminum bolts, yadda yadda..


i used real OEM to cross-reference the exhaust gasket (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref....18107502346%09) on an E46 and the same gasket is applied on all manner of N52-equipped cars. with this news, combined with hoveringuy's experience with the M54, i would wager that the S50 euro headers will also bolt on to N52's! a little bit of massaging would get them to clear subframe/firewall on the E30. this would help deal with the integrated catalysts of the stock N52 setup and likely free up a bit of power.


shit man. with MS3 controlling the 3 stage manifold, VANOS, and raising the redline a hair, combined with the the euro S50 headers and a freer flowing exhaust than stock, i'd bet the engine could put out 270+ crank. all the while being over 80 lbs lighter than a comparable S5x setup and getting better fuel mileage with more useable torque and mild-mannered driveability.

[hoveringuy]

so checklist here...

OBD1 engine harness, knock sensors, DBW TB, etc
MS3+ ECU w/ innovate wideband
.

No need for OBD1 harness, keep the stock harness.

the electric waterpump would need to be sorted out.
.

I don't think that would be tough. MS3 has plenty of generic PWM outputs, you could have low duty cycle at low power settings and crank it up at high power outputs for more cooling. The signal would need to be conditioned through a more robust MOSFET that could handle a few amps. Not a big deal.

i'd bet the engine could put out 270+ crank.

I'm at 230 to the wheels on the M54 which is around 260-265 crank. With no water pump drag N52 could top that easily. Plus I barely need power steering right now, with N52 I would certainly eliminate it.

Someone needs to test fit the motor! (N20 can come later)

[evandael]

great info. could this setup hit 250 whp? it doesn't seem unreasonable..

[328ijunkie]

if an S52 can this can. In some forms they run 268 crank

[Farbin Kaiber]

I replaced one of the electric waterpumps today, I was thinking about this, why not just use a hot rod style inline e-waterpump that is key on and use the e-thermostat to actuate?

[evandael]

farbin, are the factory n52 water pumps dual-mode? ie, low flow rate for lower temps and high flow rate when the thermostat opens?

i feel like your solution could be implemented with the stock pump, it would just need to be figured out.

[Leo_328i]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGYJl7zj4Kg

Motivation for people wanting to give this a go!