OBD1 Swaps Still... Why!?

[PeteD]

Gotcha. Slightly off topic, but some observations of old school vs. new school:

A lot of race engine builders (american motors) near me still swear by points for ignition systems. Old school guys, but they know the new technology and still choose points.

Many motocycle stunt riders (again, that I am familar with) still like carbs over fuel injection. Not sure why, but they seem to dial in the cards just right for hanging 12' wheelies for long periods of time.

[DesertBMW]

What am i missing? :D

Missing the fact that member The Volta bought a OBD2 tune for a E30 swap from you, back in march, the flash turned out to be bad, then he sent it back directly to technica and hasn't seen it sense. Now he is stuck without his DME and the money he payed you for the flash.

Also member mr.swiss had problems with his technica DME read it in this post:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=2939386&postcount=56

Brett @ Technica said I needed to have the purge valve and SAS switching valve and that the actual systems cannot be turned off and I NEED to run the OBD2 FPR.......or deal with the CEL

[MR 325]

All i see from OBD1 swaps is VSS issues, Idle issues, O2 sensor backfeed BS, knock sensors turning to dust, crank sensors dying every 5 min, random no start for no reason issues, etc

:dunno

None of this is an issue if you do things right.

[rThor432]

None of this is an issue if you do things right.

Agreed. The beauty of the OBD1 conversion used to be that I could strip an OBD2 engine to a long block, bolt on all of the OBD1 parts, wire it up, and have it running in a days time. Granted I've been out of the loop for some time now..

[bimmerhodge]

I'd go with lack of information. I went to obdi because i read that's THE thing to do. Haha. I figure this thread came up because of my no start thread. I had no problems with actual obdi engine components or sensors. The computer chip was backwards from the last guy. So really, this was probably easier. And i also had a budget to follow. I feel like sending my ecu to be flashed would probably destroy my budget and be out of my time frame.

All that said, I still have my obdii harness, convince me to put it back in! ;)

[Beej '86 325es]

I agree man. Had I not already started along this path years ago, OBDII is the way to go.

The amount of technology available to OBDII cars now is amazing. Kiwi, bluetooth, change tunes in 2 minutes, the list of advantages goes on...

[BBDirtbiking]

I'd go with lack of information. I went to obdi because i read that's THE thing to do. Haha. I figure this thread came up because of my no start thread. I had no problems with actual obdi engine components or sensors. The computer chip was backwards from the last guy. So really, this was probably easier. And i also had a budget to follow. I feel like sending my ecu to be flashed would probably destroy my budget and be out of my time frame.

That is what is funny. We have 328junkie commenting on how a lot of swaps have issues starting with OBD1 conversion. Well in the big picture, who makes a thread when it does start? No one. We only make threads when we need help with no starts. And seeing as how 98% of people are OBD1, the 2% of OBD2 no start threads are swept under the buss.

Just a thought.

[bimmerhodge]

I'd be happy to start the obdii revolution for e30s if we get a few others! Haha.

[ACHTUNG]

Lots of OBDI documented stuff...Maybe???

This is why I did the OBDI conversion during my S52 swap last year. I read over and over in countless threads that it was the way to go. I continuously read that the OBDI intake manifold had better flow and shit like that. If I had known what I know now, I would have stayed OBDII.

[BBDirtbiking]

If I had known what I know now, I would have stayed OBDII.

Please share. I haven't heard anything really good about OBD2 that would make me want to have stayed OBD2.

[hoveringuy]

The fun thing for me is that I have two almost identical M54 engines: one in my e39 530i and one in my e30.

The one in my e30 runs on Megasquirt which is an OBD Zero computer, it starts reliably, idles nicely, runs like a raped-ape and is a lot of fun to drive. It probably has the computing power of a Casio watch.

The one in my e39 runs fine, too. It starts in the morning and is predictable, slow and boring. It reaches operating temps in 1/10 the time of my e30. I could freshen my house with the exhaust.

I don't really have any issues with the newer ECU's, but I've grown to believe that the massive increases in computing power have little to do with true performance and everythig to do with squeezing every last gram of CO, NOx and HC out of the exhaust.

When our newest ECU's are truly DIY tuneable like some of the Japanese cars I'll be more onboard with it, but so far it's too much "I have a secret" by a select group of tuners.

[DesertBMW]

Please share. I haven't heard anything really good about OBD2 that would make me want to have stayed OBD2.

Improved features of MS41.1/MS41.2 when compared to M3.3.1 bosch

1: improved knock detection, ms41 is able to hear which cylinder is knocking and retard the timing only on that cylinder resulting in better performance even with low grade fuel. M3.3.1 system will retard the timing in all 3 cylinders resulting in greater loss of power.

2: improved ignition timing, because crank trigger wheel is located inside the engine bolted directly on to the crank, this gives it more precise timing and it is required for proper misfire detection. MS41 is able to detect what cylinder is misfiring and turn off the injector on that cylinder to prevent catalytic converter damage. M3.3.1 system reads of the harmonic balancer wheel that constantly vibrates resulting in much less accuracy and misfire detection.

3: improved fuel control, MS41 controls the fuel injection by bank of 3 cylinders meaning if one cylinder is running leaner or richer, ms41 will adjust air fuel ratio on that bank only 1-3 or 4-6 instead of adjusting for the whole 6 as you have it in m3.3.1. this is the reason why ms41 has two 02 sensors in the exhaust manifolds

4: improved fuel delivery system, running loss valve reduces the fuel vapor that builds inside the fuel rail, resulting in better more constant fuel delivery and better hot starting.

There are also improvements on the engine 93-95 vs 96-99, like: increased displacement, lighter valve spring keepers, lighter lifters, counter balanced camshafts, tighter vanos control, improved chain tensioner, improved PCV oil separating system, lighter exhaust malifolds, one less belt roller, bigger injectors

[nando]

Steve, the cpu you have in ms3 is actually pretty advanced, realistically moreso than anything being discussed in this thread. If ms3 is a casio watch ms41 is an abacus :)

[hoveringuy]

Steve, the cpu you have in ms3 is actually pretty advanced, realistically moreso than anything being discussed in this thread. If ms3 is a casio watch ms41 is an abacus :)

The CPU or the programming? I would argue that the programming is better because the focus is not the EPA and has been continuously developed over the past decade. The MC9 runs at 50 MHz... not a real rocketship!

Point is that the increased power of the newer ECUs is devoted to emissions. Misfire detection, as an example, doesn't increase performance, it decreases hydrocarbon emissions by shutting down a non-firing cylinder.

[DesertBMW]

Steve, the cpu you have in ms3 is actually prett advanced, realistically moreso than anything being discussed in this thread.

Very true.
Megasquirt 2 has a CPU speed of 24mhz
MS41.1 has CPU speed of 20mhz
MS43 has CPU speed of 25mhz

Megasquirt-III uses a 16bit MC9S12XEP100 processor running at 50 MHz