transmission of choice?

[So Live]

I love the ZF, I just need to fix the detent springs now.

Lol i need to do that too.

I think the e36M ZF box is great. They also cam in e46 and e36 328i's. Sometimes you can get em cheap cause its not an M part.

You need to run a new diff though. 3.46 is the super performance one e36 guys run. 3.25 is the stock M3 ratio. Some people run 2.73 but only with extra hp. I like my 3.25.

Im using a e46 328I driveshaft with the s52 guibo and e30 CSB. Also running s52 clutch and flywheel.

[Stu]

I prefer and always recommend the 260 for a number of reasons:
-Uses stock E30 325i driveshaft components
-Works very well with readily available 3.73 or 4.10 rear ends
-For street driving, better gear ratios. Much more potent on the 1-2 shift compared to the E36 'box. If you're like me, 95% of 'ripping it' consists of 1-2-3 gears.
-Minimal issues with downshift-overrevs (This is too common a problem with E36 gearboxes for 'driver error' to be the excuse)
----However, unlike the E36 gearboxes which bolt directly to E30 transmission brace:
-You will need to fabricate a transmission brace, but this is not very difficult.
-Selector rod modification (to compensate for 10-degree angle difference), this is a simple cut/weld.

[SpecM]

I prefer and always recommend the 260 for a number of reasons:
-Uses stock E30 325i driveshaft components
-Works very with readily available 3.73 or 4.10 rear ends
-For street driving, better gear ratios. Much more potent on the 1-2 shift compared to the E36 'box.
-Minimal issues with downshift-overrevs (This is too common a problem with E36 gearboxes for 'driver error' to be the excuse)
-You will need to fabricate a transmission brace, but this is not very difficult.
-Selector rod modification (to compensate for 10-degree angle difference) is SIMPLE work

listen to stuart. He knows these things.

[1990m3]

I prefer and always recommend the 260 for a number of reasons:
-Uses stock E30 325i driveshaft components
-Works very well with readily available 3.73 or 4.10 rear ends
-For street driving, better gear ratios. Much more potent on the 1-2 shift compared to the E36 'box. If you're like me, 95% of 'ripping it' consists of 1-2-3 gears.
-Minimal issues with downshift-overrevs (This is too common a problem with E36 gearboxes for 'driver error' to be the excuse)
----However, unlike the E36 gearboxes which bolt directly to E30 transmission brace:
-You will need to fabricate a transmission brace, but this is not very difficult.
-Selector rod modification (to compensate for 10-degree angle difference), this is a simple cut/weld.

all valid points but...what about the usefulness of a 1:1 5th gear that the e36 zf box has? Mine is a track car and I love the 5th gear pull I get from the zf box. I will admit that I prefer the shifting qualities of the getrag boxes but its hard to find a getrag box with a favorable 5th gear ratio in the US without spending $$$$$

[Stu]

I'm just speaking from personal experience from swap-cars within my family. Others may argue that the E36 1:1 box's have better suited ratios for gears 3-4-5 making them preferred on a racetrack. My recommendation for the E30 260 'box is based on all things considered, and is strictly an opinion.

[Stu]

all valid points but...what about the usefulness of a 1:1 5th gear that the e36 zf box has? Mine is a track car and I love the 5th gear pull I get from the zf box. I will admit that I prefer the shifting qualities of the getrag boxes but its hard to find a getrag box with a favorable 5th gear ratio in the US without spending $$$$$

Previous post was not in response to your post, just a 'disclaimer' if you will. :)

Never had much of a problem with 5th gear pull with a 3.0 or 3.2 behind a 260 'box (3.73 rearend). For 2.5 M50's, I recommend a 4.10 with the Getrag 260, and 3.73 for 3.0/3.2.
In my unrelated previous post, I understand your desire for better 3-4-5 gearing with the 260. Unfortunately I don't have much insight in that area. With my 3.0L/360/3.73 at my local track, I'm only in 5th gear briefly...but it's not much of a drop (I want to say 7200 down to 5500 or so).

EDIT: This clip shows 7000 shift points with a 260 transmission.

This video shows redline shifts with a Getrag 260 and 3.73 rearend. Shifting at 7000, the car only drops below 5000 on the 2-3 shift (4800 or so), but all other shifts leave the car over 5000rpm, well within the relevant rev-range. You don't see the 4-5 shift here but I assure you it is not a severe drop in revs (1:1 to .805:1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4SmYh1koo

[lifeiskaos]

lol well now im torn. one question though, whats the difference between the getrag 250 and the zf tranny. i would LOVE a 6 speed.. how does bending the selector rod fix the problem? on my friend's m50/260, you cant even get into fifth gear

[Stu]

lol well now im torn. one question though, whats the difference between the getrag 250 and the zf tranny. i would LOVE a 6 speed.. how does bending the selector rod fix the problem? on my friend's m50/260, you cant even get into fifth gear

The M20 is tilted 10-degrees to the left compared to an M50. Therefore, when you mate an M20 (260) transmission to an M50, the tranny sits 10* to the right. This is not a problem. You need to fab up a tranny brace and cut/rotate 10-degrees/weld the selector rod.

It sounds like your friend didn't do this, and the console is getting in the way of grabbing 5th gear. :)

[Jean]

I will admit that I prefer the shifting qualities of the getrag boxes

what are these qualities?

[SpecM]

what are these qualities?

better "feel" and "notchieness" over the ZF

[rThor432]

85% of customer E36 M3's at work have shifters that like to sit right below 5th in neutral. Normally a shifter should sit below 3rd, so if you pust the selector rod foward, you will be in 3rd. The ZF boxes like to go into 5th if pushed foward, so if you want to go into 3rd or 4th you have to push the selector to the left, like you normally would to go into 1st or 2nd, but not quite as much. If you arent thinking hard about it, it would be easy to stick it in 1st/2nd instead of 3rd/4th which would result in the infamous "money shift". Of course, not all of the 328i/M3 ZF boxes are like this, but a lot of them are. From my experience anyway.

The ZF just has a generally sloppy feel, like a Porsche. Getrag transmissions feel much better.

The S50/2 has plenty of torque and should pull nicely in the 260's overdriven 5th with a 3.73.

That said, I'm probably going to try a spare 245 dogleg behind my S52 with a 2.93 slipper soon. I want to see if they are as weak as the rumors say.. I have a ZF gearbox, but I just dont like it.

[Stu]

85% of customer E36 M3's at work have shifters that like to sit right below 5th in neutral. Normally a shifter should sit below 3rd, so if you pust the selector rod foward, you will be in 3rd. The ZF boxes like to go into 5th if pushed foward, so if you want to go into 3rd or 4th you have to push the selector to the left, like you normally would to go into 1st or 2nd, but not quite as much. If you arent thinking hard about it, it would be easy to stick it in 1st/2nd instead of 3rd/4th which would result in the infamous "money shift". Of course, not all of the 328i/M3 ZF boxes are like this, but a lot of them are. From my experience anyway.

The ZF just has a generally sloppy feel, like a Porsche. Getrag transmissions feel much better.

The S50/2 has plenty of torque and should pull nicely in the 260's overdriven 5th with a 3.73.

That said, I'm probably going to try a spare 245 dogleg behind my S52 with a 2.93 slipper soon. I want to see if they are as weak as the rumors say.. I have a ZF gearbox, but I just dont like it.

Hey man,

Good to hear you're going with a 24v. I'd VERY strongly advise against the 245 though. That's a desirable transmission that's worth good coin and should be used in an M20 car. I guarentee a 90mm stroke M50 will shuck the gears in that trans quickly, especially with someone our age driving it. ;) Sell the ZF and pickup a 260 and put a 3.73 behind it. Surely Mitch or Bret or someone has a 260 around. If the 228mm clutch isn't enough for you, you can fit a 240mm E36 M3 setup in the 260 housing.

I'd just hate to see that 245 get trashed--From what I hear there are certain rebuild parts that are either NLA or very hard to come by. That gearbox belongs in that Henna M20 car from around your area.

[rThor432]

Hey man,

Good to hear you're going with a 24v. I'd VERY strongly advise against the 245 though. That's a desirable transmission that's worth good coin and should be used in an M20 car. I guarentee a 90mm stroke M50 will shuck the gears in that trans quickly, especially with someone our age driving it. ;) Sell the ZF and pickup a 260 and put a 3.73 behind it. Surely Mitch or Bret or someone has a 260 around. If the 228mm clutch isn't enough for you, you can fit a 240mm E36 M3 setup in the 260 housing.

I'd just hate to see that 245 get trashed--From what I hear there are certain rebuild parts that are either NLA or very hard to come by. That gearbox belongs in that Henna M20 car from around your area.

Yeah, we had an S52 delivered to the shop for a customer's Z3, but he ended up going with an M52B30 instead. So we had this 86k motor from an auto car just lying around....

I've got two 245's, so I figure if I lunch one, it's not so bad. But that is flawed logic. Ha. I actually have a nice 260 with the big output flange..

And tell me more about the E36 M3 setup in the 260 housing.....? I have a nice flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate assembly designed for the E36 M3. If that works in a 260, I'm all about that..

Mitch cant live with 1:1. And if you are referring to Aaron's henna car, well, I think I'd be safer putting it behind an S52 ;) haha.

[Stu]

Yeah, we had an S52 delivered to the shop for a customer's Z3, but he ended up going with an M52B30 instead. So we had this 86k motor from an auto car just lying around....

I've got two 245's, so I figure if I lunch one, it's not so bad. But that is flawed logic. Ha. I actually have a nice 260 with the big output flange..

And tell me more about the E36 M3 setup in the 260 housing.....? I have a nice flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate assembly designed for the E36 M3. If that works in a 260, I'm all about that..

Mitch cant live with 1:1. And if you are referring to Aaron's henna car, well, I think I'd be safer putting it behind an S52 ;) haha.

My brother Alex had a 260 in his E30 M3 and used a 240mm E36 M3 sport-disk with race pressure plate (All Sachs). I use a 228mm race setup in my 260 and it works fine for my 3.0L. I'm easy on the clutch though--no launching, etc. If you NEED a serious clutch, you can fit a 240mm setup in a 260 housing. Some grinding of the bellhousing may be necessary but nothing excessive.

I can tell you that my dads old 2.9L M50 went less than 5,000 miles before 5th gear was unobtainable in the 245 gearbox. We had to drive back from St. Louis in 4th gear with a 3.46--Talk about a PITA. 245's are not common, I'd hang onto those if I were you.

Mitch's car is what I was referring to--it begs for a c/r and 3.64. ;)

[rThor432]

My brother Alex had a 260 in his E30 M3 and used a 240mm E36 M3 sport-disk with race pressure plate (All Sachs). I use a 228mm race setup in my 260 and it works fine for my 3.0L. I'm easy on the clutch though--no launching, etc. If you NEED a serious clutch, you can fit a 240mm setup in a 260 housing. Some grinding of the bellhousing may be necessary but nothing excessive.

I can tell you that my dads old 2.9L M50 went less than 5,000 miles before 5th gear was unobtainable in the 245 gearbox. We had to drive back from St. Louis in 4th gear with a 3.46--Talk about a PITA. 245's are not common, I'd hang onto those if I were you.

Mitch's car is what I was referring to--it begs for a c/r and 3.64. ;)

Which starter did he use? I think the M20 and M50 starter gears have different offsets? If it's a plug-and-play other than a little grinding, I'm all for that. Let me know as much as you can about his setup (via PM if that's better). I have the opportunity to get rid of the ZF for $800 or so, but I need to act quickly.. Let me know, please and thanks Stu.

Man, that must have been a buzz bomb.. ha.

Yeah Mitch's does need it. He wants the UK close ratio though, so he can keep his over-drive. The dogleg with a 3.64 would drive me insane on the highway. My 323i with the 3.23 rear gear was pretty bad. Still about ~250-300 less rpm in 5th than a 260 with a 4.10.