S54 advice and considerations

[Dean]

Hi all, this is more of a what to consider than a question and answer type affair.

I have a 1998 328iSE saloon/sedan and I've been looking into making the engine better by stroking it etc and turning it into a 3.2 litre, ok that is a winter project, as I can bore each cylinder by 88cc to create this and get pistons and con rods to match with the ARP bearings and then add thinks like more aggressive Emerald cams and a few tweeks here and there I should get over 300bhp with not too much sweat. I was thinking of putting that engine into my an E30. Thing is, I've been hankering with another idea.

I was thinking of removing one S54 engine and putting it into my E30 for a daily with a difference, that swap can be done very easy with a few choice parts. So that leaves a question, IF I do that, what happens to my stunning E30, well I've now noticed the price of E46 M3's drop BIG TIME in the UK and EU, meaning a S54 engine and loom can be had for GBP 2000-3000 for a 50k example. The consideration is how does it fit and what do I need. Also as its drive by wire and the loom is different and the 'sport button' etc. Also clocks fuses and how the loom connects. I've had no experience of this swap other than the Stanceworks E36 (link below to youtube video) and think it may be something worth trying as then I can have the E30 for daily and letting my hair down for a serious bit of kit as 340bhp and a few tweeks, I could have a 360-380bhp E30 car and as it already has all the right handling and chassis upgrades I feel the swap could be done good and well in my car.

I'm looking for links to american projects pictures and lists/costs of parts so I can consider this project.

This has been my inspiration for over a year now and I want it in my 4 door!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3C-AlL3lQA

Thanks for looking :)

[samiam3356]

There's prob less than 10 people on this site that actually have a running s54 in an e30. Fredk, Wagonstyle(sp?), Ryan G, these are the only ones that come to mind atm. I hope it becomes easier to do but the last time I talked to TRM they had more pressing issues (ahem OBD2 stuff I think.) Matt would prob be the closest to a "cheap" solution if he ever comes up with one. There's a "mistery" guy in Europe relashing DME's withou EWS. VAC and Bimmerworld I believe can do the swap but want 2 newborn children along with both kidneys to do the swap. I'll wait untill it become a little more reasonable. Also look like Alpha-N is the way to go to get more out of it and to make it easier.

[FredK]

Mine isn't running yet. I took a long break from the car, and I'm starting back up again.

[gobuffs]

Since you are in the UK, an S50B32 is an easier (and much cheaper) swap....however, the S54 is much more powerful (and they should have less miles). I would say all the little parts you want to redo when putting the motor in there are pretty much equal between those 2 motors. Each will need an E34 M50 oil pump and pan as the dual sump S54 one won't fit- you can sell that setup off and have a few bucks (quid) in your pocket. The electronics on the S54 is more expensive. The aforementioned "mystery" guy is legit and last I heard was 900 Euro to get the stock ECU flashed to work in an E30 (add 400 Euro to get alpha N).

All in, you are looking at 3000 pounds for a S50B32, and 6000 pounds for an S54. The S54 is a whole nother level of expense...I've had both. New rod bearings and bolts are a good idea when the S54 is out.

[Dean]

So it will essentially run with the E36 OBD2 platform better than the E30. The Stanceworks E36 was OBD1 as it was an early 325is. I have heard of the guy offering the NON EWS flashed ECU, but that worries me slightly not getting the full ptential from the engine with the VANOS. If it were used primary as a track car I'd be well up for that.

In the UK a E36 3.2 Evo engine goes for 1500-2000 british money and the S54 goes for 2500-3000 for a complete engine with all ancillaries. It just is an idea I'm really looking into as a winter project. I know it fits but getting it to run is a whole new ball game!!!

Thanks for replies guys

[dakon]

Mine isn't running yet. I took a long break from the car, and I'm starting back up again.

Fred, do you plan on doing a "required parts list"? for those of us who want to follow your lead?


Dean, the biggest problem that i have found with this swap is the wiring harness...

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13052

if you read this tread, this is a company in europe that did 2 S54 swaps, i am waiting for a reply as to whether they will offer a wire harness for sale, or provide a service to alter wire harnesses.

I did some research, and found that there is possibly a gentleman in England that will modify wire harness for E30-S54 swap for 1,500$. i believe with his harness, you would also need the VAC throttle cable swap, his harness is no longer drive by wire.


Also, there is a guy from California on Bimmerforums that sell S54's pretty often, i talked with him also, and he offered an alphaN tune for free if i bought a motor from him... However, i did not get a warm and fuzzy feeling about getting a harness from him. He has a E36 M3 S54 car that is his track car...

[gobuffs]

So it will essentially run with the E36 OBD2 platform better than the E30. The Stanceworks E36 was OBD1 as it was an early 325is. I have heard of the guy offering the NON EWS flashed ECU, but that worries me slightly not getting the full ptential from the engine with the VANOS. If it were used primary as a track car I'd be well up for that.

What??? The stock computer will not like not having all the inputs it expects...it doesn't care what chassis it is in. The EWS has nothing to do with the Vanos. The only thing the EWS does is to tell the ECU the proper key has been used and to not stop the motor after a few seconds. Having the EWS removed makes life a whole lot easier.

if you read this tread, this is a company in europe that did 2 S54 swaps, i am waiting for a reply as to whether they will offer a wire harness for sale, or provide a service to alter wire harnesses.

I did some research, and found that there is possibly a gentleman in England that will modify wire harness for E30-S54 swap for 1,500$. i believe with his harness, you would also need the VAC throttle cable swap, his harness is no longer drive by wire.

I believe the Bimmerworld solution to put swap the S54 in an E30 includes the harness mods. I don't know for sure as I didn't consider that solution for very long. The BW solution includes the flashing of the computer as well. Last I heard it was $3k-3300.

[Wanganstyle]

So it will essentially run with the E36 OBD2 platform better than the E30. The Stanceworks E36 was OBD1 as it was an early 325is. I have heard of the guy offering the NON EWS flashed ECU, but that worries me slightly not getting the full ptential from the engine with the VANOS. If it were used primary as a track car I'd be well up for that.

Stance works guys seem idiots as far as engine is concerned, only a moron would throw away the S54 factory accumulator to replace with some garbage fart tubes stolen from some elementary school brass section.


I Do not imagine a bunch of un-educated non-engineers can one-up the BMW WBS division on air induction...... (no offense to anyone; just my opinion)


The S54 OEM accumulator has been proven by VAC motorsports on the dyno (youtube this) (it can do 370rwhp on dyno).



S54 swap can also be done with full s50b32 electronics, sensors, dme if that is easier for you. .. since you are in A RHD country with s50b32 stuff avail locally, id use those brains/sensors and reflash dme to suit the S54.

There's prob less than 10 people on this site that actually have a running s54 in an e30. Fredk, Wanganstyle(sp?), Ryan G, these are the only ones that come to mind atm. I hope it becomes easier to do but the last time I talked to TRM they had more pressing issues (ahem OBD2 stuff I think.) Matt would prob be the closest to a "cheap" solution if he ever comes up with one. There's a "mistery" guy in Europe relashing DME's withou EWS. VAC and Bimmerworld I believe can do the swap but want 2 newborn children along with both kidneys to do the swap. I'll wait untill it become a little more reasonable. Also look like Alpha-N is the way to go to get more out of it and to make it easier.

VAC/Bimmerworld are outsourcing the EWS hacking to europe. Nuff said here
Mystery guy in europe doing Mss54 hack+Alpha-N is somewhat effective, but you have to basically tune from ground up (just like a standalone)

for E30 application (since there is no OBD or smog rules on e30 chassis UNLIKE usa e36m)

standalone is the best way, if you cannot wire you need to find somehow who knows this engine/chassis/standalone integration to handle it for you- Or you can melt down your engine bay ... Full wiring job needed, ABL has them for S54+e30/36 - I believe cost is about $1500.

I wired my own S54 harness + s52 harness + DTA S100 (motec connectors) and did my own high speed Wangan Aero loading mapping for my S54 alpha-N; the Gearing and Aero and drag and car weight- mean ALOT when tuning for Alpha-N, its drag related - True alpha N.

nothing besides TPS and RPM and cam; full double vanos was kept.

tuning expense? yes!!!!!!

over $2k spent in fuel alone over road mapping; quite an amout of risk also (as I mapped to 160mph OVER for my use). Dyno time is also suggested although not the same as the real thing. 170mph + hillclimb+cross wind aero drag is more than a dyno can realistically simulate.

ABL in chicago and others have cable throttle conversion, the VAC item ($325usd) is shipped with GARBAGE CHINA hardware - reference my s54 swap thread, I broke brand new hardware from them and had to call to get more cheap china crap sent to me...

ABL is one of the longest time running Euro engine importers stateside, Alex is a great guy. IF you have any specific S54 query's he is a very good knowledge source if you can catch him; He has a e36 s54 swapped non-m, and is planning to build a e34+s54 :)

Do not fear S54!!!! embrace it!

[Wanganstyle]

Since you are in the UK, an S50B32 is an easier (and much cheaper) swap....however, the S54 is much more powerful (and they should have less miles). I would say all the little parts you want to redo when putting the motor in there are pretty much equal between those 2 motors. Each will need an E34 M50 oil pump and pan as the dual sump S54 one won't fit- you can sell that setup off and have a few bucks (quid) in your pocket. The electronics on the S54 is more expensive. The aforementioned "mystery" guy is legit and last I heard was 900 Euro to get the stock ECU flashed to work in an E30 (add 400 Euro to get alpha N).

All in, you are looking at 3000 pounds for a S50B32, and 6000 pounds for an S54. The S54 is a whole nother level of expense...I've had both. New rod bearings and bolts are a good idea when the S54 is out.

you can fit a rear sump if desired; I have seen the X member installed in a local E30 with rear sump+ s54. fits perfect, runs a++
** i believe the cost is about $1.5K usd.**

S54 is alot newer, but you may be able to but a crashed S50b32 complete car for S54 money (since you are in europe).

in USA, we can buy S52/s54 complete crashed and running car much easier than picking up all the pieces.



**************
not sure what euro's are doing currently for s54 swaps, but there are many more product suprises to make the S54 swap easier that will be rolling out of nor-cal soon :)

I'm Not sure why people are bitching so much about harness costs;
every single wiring harness for japanese cars (honda, toyota, subaru, mazda)

is made by hand and costs $1k USD ++ new. IF you are from subaru world, or toyota supra world the average Merger LABOR ONLY COSTS for harness conversion is $700-1200 with NO PARTS INCLUDED.




want to put a sti 2500cc turbo in your 1800cc NA impreza? no problem; PAY $,$$$ call east coast swappers, or i-wire
want to put a 2jzgte into your datsun 240Z? or anything?? no problem. Pay $,$$$ calll DR TWEAK

want to put a S54 into your E21, e30, e31/e32/e34/e36/e39 with XXX ecu? no problem.

Call ABL in chicago, call me, call many others- problem is always time expense $,$$$.

Custom harness is simple LABOR, not a fun friendly affair :( Someone who actually understands the engine+ecu+wiring will almost always be high level and cost more to hire than the average bear; This is a systems hacking affair.

Just read through this forum section 24v swap, and you will be able to calc the percentage of people who ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO WIRE a car - its under 10%, closer to 5% of who actually knows how to wire a EMS properly.


regarding serious wiring:

This came upons in the 2jzgte world when no-one could figure out how to wire 2jzgte MAP only ECU; I posted a giant spreadsheet with all the pin out crosses, and the people just became even more confused:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance-and-maintenance/410129-aristo-2jzgte-harness-puzzle-figured-out.html

**************


the 2jz wiring took me about 50-60 hours to figure out and execute
S54+E36M+DTA S100 took me about 50 hours to figure out and execute, another 10-15 hours to perfect.

ALSO, its very tiring on hands - re pin de pin. Like surgery - you can try it yourself, get a very large box of very high end nirtile non latex unpowdered gloves.....

Costs first time around (with used S54 engine) was in the $10k usd range, I did spend quite a bit in AN-10 lines, headers, misc etc etc.

Second time around the S54 will be fully 100% built from naked block.

Alpha-N Mapping I've already invested in, plug and play Harness I have already built on shelf- so the learning curve has been paid for.
*****************


Too bad you are not in Nor-cal:

S54+e30 could be handled Professionally in a weekend if the customer was serious enough!!!

You could go to JRD or RGMW - both in the bay area :)


***************

Full turnkey S54 is possible; wiring harness is on shelf for PNP. DTA computer company is in UK also, so you could just buy a DTA s100 unit directly from them if desired :)

-If you were in a non S54 country I could crate an entire 0 mile built S54 and harness +dme and email you the mapping files to turn key it :P
Ideally you find someone who has handled this S54 before as well, you don't want to be paying for experimental costs!!!!!!!!!!! I had an additional 2.5K usd stashed for MISC expenses.... and I did utilize it.

since you are in UK, the local boys can take care of your e30 Weapon no sweat!!

[dakon]

Call ABL in chicago, call me, call many others- problem is always time expense $,$$$.

Do you feel like committing to some kind of price range, if you were to be provided a wire harness such that it would be pnp?

Personally, i did not want to buy a S54 without having a wiring solution. I am not at the point where i can decode the wiring myself. If i had a detailed schematic i could do it, however right now, there aren't anything openly available.



I would love to do an S54 swap, as i would MUCH rather do an S54 swap than a S52 swap.

P.S. I don't want to come across as though I'm backing you into a corner, if you do not know what you would charge, i can understand i am just looking for other options other than Bimmerworlds 3k$ option.

[Teaguer]

Do you feel like committing to some kind of price range, if you were to be provided a wire harness such that it would be pnp?

i am just looking for other options other than Bimmerworlds 3k$ option.

Wanganstyle mentions that Alex (ABL) sells standalone pnp harness for around $1500.
Wanganstyle himself has listed on bf.c & ebay an e36 pnp harness for the DTA s100 standalone for $1250.

[dakon]

yeah, i saw the price for the ABL solution.

[nando]

I have ideas that would bring the cost down considerably, but it won't be for everyone... I'm thinking around $1500 for the whole thing. still expensive I guess, but not really. I don't see modifying the harness as completely neccesary. But I'd have to gut an MSS54 ECU (sad, but I could probably at least re-use some of the internal components).

basically the only way this is going to be cheaper is if matt at TRM can hack it, or if you use standalone. The guys selling $3000 flashes or $5000 plug and play standalones have an interest in keeping this proprietary. The margins are fat. the less the rest of you guys know, the better for them.

It's just a motor, guys - it just has a really, really awesome head. Give it air, fuel and spark in the right quantities, it will run. Of course keeping dual VANOS is the most important thing to me. DBW can suck a dick. :p

they seem to go for around $5000 right now, I'm thinking in a couple years they'll be around $3000? I've seen some there already, but they had cracks in the timing cover from being in an accident.. yikes!

It will be a couple years before I have anything to show though, because I'm going to have to prove it will work.. I'm expecting a lot of skeptics.

[samiam3356]

I have ideas that would bring the cost down considerably, but it won't be for everyone... I'm thinking around $1500 for the whole thing. still expensive I guess, but not really. I don't see modifying the harness as completely neccesary. But I'd have to gut an MSS54 ECU (sad, but I could probably at least re-use some of the internal components).

basically the only way this is going to be cheaper is if matt at TRM can hack it, or if you use standalone. The guys selling $3000 flashes or $5000 plug and play standalones have an interest in keeping this proprietary. The margins are fat. the less the rest of you guys know, the better for them.

It's just a motor, guys - it just has a really, really awesome head. Give it air, fuel and spark in the right quantities, it will run. Of course keeping dual VANOS is the most important thing to me. DBW can suck a dick. :p

they seem to go for around $5000 right now, I'm thinking in a couple years they'll be around $3000? I've seen some there already, but they had cracks in the timing cover from being in an accident.. yikes!

It will be a couple years before I have anything to show though, because I'm going to have to prove it will work.. I'm expecting a lot of skeptics.

Haters gonna.....


I hope you do come up with something. I thought this would be my next swap but for the money you could have a fresh s52 with FI, making way more power than any na s54. Ended up buying another s52 block to build over the next year while I enjoy what I have.

[nando]

it's true you can make more power, but you won't have anywhere near the response, feel, or sound. But I guess when you look at it currently, it could cost an easy $10k to do the swap if you did everything yourself. A turbo S52 starts to make sense. if the cost could be cut in half, it would be more comparable to what people are doing now (and might make the S52 even cheaper).