Aluminum block S54?

[The Dark Side of Will]

My understanding is that BMW built the S54 in an iron block because they couldn't get adequate cylinder wall stiffness at the 3.2 bore size with an aluminum block. They were able to offset the weight gain from the iron block by taking a good bit of weight out of the cylinder head via elimination of the separate cam carriers.

An 87mm bore on a 91mm bore center leave 4mm of iron between the bores.

The S62 has 94mm bores on 98mm bore centers and runs with only 4mm of aluminum between the bores.

The S62 is not exactly a paragon of head gasket seal durability, especially when boosted, but they *HAVE* been sleeved with steel sleeves, which improves that durability and can let them run 18 psi of boost or maybe even more.

Has anyone ever built an S54 in a sleeved M54 block?
Can it even be done? Can the S54 head bolt up to the M54 block? Do the cooling jackets, oil feeds, oil drain backs and head bolt holes all line up?

I realize that this would be done purely for weight reduction, and it would be fairly expensive weight reduction... but some people are pretty crazy ;)

Since BMW took a good bit of weight out of the head, such an engine might be lighter than the M54, AND would also carry its weight lower in the body.

[dustyperez]

i love people that do things

[Cristov9000]

Sorry to be a downer but the coolant and oil passages don't lineup m54 to s54... head bolts are in the same spot though.

[nrubenstein]

You'd effectively have to cast your own block.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Sorry to be a downer but the coolant and oil passages don't lineup m54 to s54... head bolts are in the same spot though.

Ok... didn't know that. Not a downer; it's just the way things are.

You'd effectively have to cast your own block.

Hehe... crazier things have been done.

Guy who adapter Ferrari Testarossa DOHC 4V cylinder heads to a 400i block (originally SOHC 2V like an M20) to build his own 48V V12 for installation in a 308:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/projects-rebuilds-modifications/12282-308-v12-conversion-v12.html

He all but built his block out of welding rod, including filling 400i head bolt holes to re-drill the Testarossa head bolt pattern; made his own cam blanks... etc.

[wazzu70]

The deck heights are different too.

[LJ851]

Guy who adapted Ferrari Testarossa DOHC 4V cylinder heads to a 400i block (originally SOHC 2V like an M20) to build his own 48V V12 for installation in a 308:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/projects-rebuilds-modifications/12282-308-v12-conversion-v12.html

He all but built his block out of welding rod, including filling 400i head bolt holes to re-drill the Testarossa head bolt pattern; made his own cam blanks... etc.

Holy shit, will.

I'm going to post that in my non r3v build threads thread.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The deck heights are different too.

Thanks!

Do you know what the deck heights are?

Edit: Honda guys deck plate their blocks... Might be possible to use a deckplate to adapt the coolant and oil holes. Even more expensive weight reduction...

Holy shit, will.

I'm going to post that in my non r3v build threads thread.

LOL... Link?

I've met him in person too. Really cool guy.

[LJ851]

LOL... Link?

I've met him in person too. Really cool guy.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=282547

[The Dark Side of Will]

Thanks!

[Loupoz]

Migheasier to easier to just have a custom block machined from a solid piece of aluminum. Would require a lot of measuring, and drawing, but its possible. I remember reading about some crazy people in Greece doing it with an EVO.

[digger]

IMO better off making a 3D cad model and machining a mm or two off the outer surface to save weight. if BMW had done a S54 alloy block it probably would have been beefier than the M54 and there is more to stiffness than cylinder wall thickness

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?15366-3-6L-S54-Technical-Discussion&p=187467#post187467

S54 deck height: 216.9 mm

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m54.htm

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=2895581

M54 deck height: 211 mm

5.9mm difference =0.232"
If the top ring land is deeper than 6mm, then a plate could be bolted onto the M54 deck... Use M54 everything from the plate down (including head gasket), S54 everything from the plate up (also including head gasket). I'm just idly talking, as I have no idea if it's possible for a plate that thin to have adequate flow when mixing/matching coolant and oil passages... IE, don't know how big the stock passages are or their placement. Also, such a setup would have ridiculous crevice volume.

There definitely is more to block stiffness than cylinder wall thickness, but cylinder wall thickness is pretty critical.
After all, BMW built the N54 and N55 engines with aluminum blocks and boost, so they were able to make the block stiff and strong enough.

Funny you should mention the CNC machining of the block surface. I'm sure your familiar with more apps, but that's been done with Chevy and Ford engines. The aftermarket blocks are stronger than production blocks, but heavier. The CNC program takes unnecessary weight off the as-cast exterior surface. What other blocks are done that way in Australia?
I think the quality and core shift of a BMW production casting is probably at least as good as the aftermarket castings for US engines... there may not be much room to take off weight that way.

[digger]

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...467#post187467

S54 deck height: 216.9 mm

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m54.htm

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=2895581

M54 deck height: 211 mm

5.9mm difference =0.232"
If the top ring land is deeper than 6mm, then a plate could be bolted onto the M54 deck... Use M54 everything from the plate down (including head gasket), S54 everything from the plate up (also including head gasket). I'm just idly talking, as I have no idea if it's possible for a plate that thin to have adequate flow when mixing/matching coolant and oil passages... IE, don't know how big the stock passages are or their placement. Also, such a setup would have ridiculous crevice volume.

There definitely is more to block stiffness than cylinder wall thickness, but cylinder wall thickness is pretty critical.
After all, BMW built the N54 and N55 engines with aluminum blocks and boost, so they were able to make the block stiff and strong enough.

Funny you should mention the CNC machining of the block surface. I'm sure your familiar with more apps, but that's been done with Chevy and Ford engines. The aftermarket blocks are stronger than production blocks, but heavier. The CNC program takes unnecessary weight off the as-cast exterior surface. What other blocks are done that way in Australia?
I think the quality and core shift of a BMW production casting is probably at least as good as the aftermarket castings for US engines... there may not be much room to take off weight that way.

i doubt you would get it down to the same weight as a proper alloy block but could be a fair bit. ive not really looked at the s54 block

if you sleeve the block with adapter on top then the top ring groove would not be driven by the thickness of plate on top as there would be a seamless surface.

[Wanganstyle]

The S54 does not share architecture with the M54/m50 family. Deck height is different; S54 is a tall deck.

For one to adapt a M54 alloy block to function as a S54 i suppose is possible if you follow the RB30 and RB315 of OS Giken and make a deck spacer + sleeve the block. + different rotating assembly

http://www.osgiken.net/products.php?product=other

M54 has been sleeved; im not sure what is involved.

S54 Cylinder head is wildly different. In the end of the day having an Aluminum block is just a pipe dream; the newest ford 3 cylinder super light engine is an IRON block