Aluminum block S54?

[The Dark Side of Will]

i doubt you would get it down to the same weight as a proper alloy block but could be a fair bit. ive not really looked at the s54 block

if you sleeve the block with adapter on top then the top ring groove would not be driven by the thickness of plate on top as there would be a seamless surface.

I suspect that BMW's iron castings are pretty lean, and there probably isn't much material to take off. I certainly would not expect it to get down to the weight of an aluminum block... not even close.

Yes, welding the deckplate on and then sleeving would be the best way to do it.
Trying to install and seal the deckplate without welding would get... finnicky, but might be possible. I think that would compromise the rigidity of the sleeves too much.

The S54 does not share architecture with the M54/m50 family. Deck height is different; S54 is a tall deck.

For one to adapt a M54 alloy block to function as a S54 i suppose is possible if you follow the RB30 and RB315 of OS Giken and make a deck spacer + sleeve the block. + different rotating assembly

http://www.osgiken.net/products.php?product=other

M54 has been sleeved; im not sure what is involved.

S54 Cylinder head is wildly different. In the end of the day having an Aluminum block is just a pipe dream; the newest ford 3 cylinder super light engine is an IRON block

Yeah, we touched the deck height difference.
Honda guys have been doing deckplates for a while now and seem to have it down to a science. If deckplating, one could even add go thicker on the deckplate, add a couple of links to the timing chain and go to longer rods...

I'm aware of Ford's new switch to iron, BUT they have changed the traditional notion of what's block and what's oil pan. The "block" includes only the bores, head bolt holes, main bolt holes and water jacket. The cast aluminum oil pan comes almost up to the deck. The assembly is still significantly lighter than the traditional iron block.

Debbie Downer :p

[Wanganstyle]

2014 means new trick ideas and cool innovation :)
The exhaust manifold for turbo also starts inside the alloy head casting. Imagine that!

Did you look at the os giken rb31 engine? If playing deckplate game nobody can hang with them.

Non welded spacer and sleeves.

Billet everything and forged case gearbox to match



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[The Dark Side of Will]

Yeah, Ford's doing a lot of interesting things. They're making new things (and new problems--the change in pan/block relationship makes a HUGE increase in potential oil leak paths) while GM is trying to perfect old things... Case in point the LFX 3.6 litre with integrated water cooled exhaust manifolds, AND it's twin turbo cousin!

I hadn't been watching the Nissan/OS front. That engine is iron block, right? Makes welding a deckplate MUCH more difficult and bolting it on comparatively more preferable. All that's really necessary is that the deckplate never moves. There are several more or less finnicky ways to do that.
OS Giken makes some NICE hardware.

Anyway... if I were going to spend that much money and effort on BMW I6 power, I'd just go N55 (single turbo fits the E30 more easily than the twin turbo N54) to have low weight, high tech and stoopid power.

[combustioncraig]

Mechanical engineer

I am a mechanical engineer and I am willing to help design a s54 billet block Aluminium with cast iron sleeves. I have the s54 complete engine model in CAD. It looks like a student did it at some point. I don't know if it is dimensional accurate or not. I also have the S54 engine hand book that will help with the design of the oil passages. Anyway I would do this all for free. It would be open source and the cad files would be open to anyone on my google drive. If people are interested in this let me know. I could really use a dead s54 engine from some one that way I can get proper dimensions. Anyways if this thread revs and people are interested I will get started.

[DesertBMW]

I am a mechanical engineer and I am willing to help design a s54 billet block Aluminium with cast iron sleeves. I have the s54 complete engine model in CAD. It looks like a student did it at some point. I don't know if it is dimensional accurate or not. I also have the S54 engine hand book that will help with the design of the oil passages. Anyway I would do this all for free. It would be open source and the cad files would be open to anyone on my google drive. If people are interested in this let me know. I could really use a dead s54 engine from some one that way I can get proper dimensions. Anyways if this thread revs and people are interested I will get started.

People from Phoenix AZ are so full of it. Must be the hot weather cooking the brains. You can design anything on your laptop but do you even imagine what kind of logistics are required for manufacturing aluminum engine block? Even if you owned your own factory you would still have to deal with BMW's patent on the design. And all of this just to have 60lb lighter engine.

[digger]

there are certainly some cooked brains here but they are probably in central arizona

[BraveUlysses]

People from Phoenix AZ are so full of it. Must be the hot weather cooking the brains. You can design anything on your laptop but do you even imagine what kind of logistics are required for manufacturing aluminum engine block? Even if you owned your own factory you would still have to deal with BMW's patent on the design. And all of this just to have 60lb lighter engine.

lol, what's the "patent number" for the bmw S54?

[nando]

Well, HackjobTT is crazy, but he does have a point. It's physically possible but the cost would be astronomical. I doubt you would get even 1 serious buyer.

This is why I switched to the N52. It should still be possible to get 300hp out of it, and it's already 150lbs lighter than the S54 in stock form. They're also newer and way more common.

[DesertBMW]

This is why I switched to the N52. It should still be possible to get 300hp out of it, and it's already 150lbs lighter than the S54 in stock form. They're also newer and way more common.

N52 in E30 should not be a problem at all. Using Z4 N52 engine mount arms engine will fit right in, not sure of the steering column would clear. Oil pan remains an obstacle, but you discovered EWS delete so I am waiting to see you be the first to swap N52

[goarmy]

Well, HackjobTT is crazy, but he does have a point. It's physically possible but the cost would be astronomical. I doubt you would get even 1 serious buyer.

This is why I switched to the N52. It should still be possible to get 300hp out of it, and it's already 150lbs lighter than the S54 in stock form. They're also newer and way more common.

that would be a great motor for my uncles 2002ti and e21 guys!!! :D

would it fit in a 2002???

[TheAxiom]

Aluminum? Harmonics would vibrate that apart so fast.

[nando]

Its kinda long, but I'm sure its possible. Its definitely longer than the M20, and then you have the transmission.

[Wanganstyle]

Aluminum block S54?

Aluminum? Harmonics would vibrate that apart so fast.

Why?

The motor in my Honda is aluminum and spins to 9,000 factory.

The b series crowd has full closed deck aftermarket short blocks in short and tall deck avail; they can push 10,000rpm and 280wheel hp naturally aspirated from around 2100cc

It's possible with production numbers in the Honda aftermarket range. Reference the mr gasket engines of the early 2000's developed by a company in Michigan.

Would just need to find a ton of buyers for an expensive ass cast+Cnc s54 block;
At the rate of current demand it would never happen.

The only people with budget to buy these kind of things would be Motorsports teams in a series like BTCC; the era of s54 in that capacity has long passed.

More likely to just wait for 3D printing technology to advance to the point that a block could be printed from powdered metal and then sleeved or something fancy and modern for cylinder lining; reference konsingegg and 3D printed turbine housing

[Northern]

Aluminum? Harmonics would vibrate that apart so fast.

Thank you.

Look at the S52's 89.6mm crank, and the harmonic issues it experiences. Then look at the exact same crank in the M54, and see how much lower the redline is, and the issues it creates when you try to raise it (ex. Vorshlag's E46 ZHP Autox car)


The S54 isn't much different, it still has crank harmonic issues, although not as bad. An aluminum block would only make it worse.

Iron is far superior for absorbing and dealing with vibration, period.

An aluminum block just seems like you're asking for trouble.

[Wanganstyle]

Aluminum block S54?

Thank you.

Look at the S52's 89.6mm crank, and the harmonic issues it experiences. Then look at the exact same crank in the M54, and see how much lower the redline is, and the issues it creates when you try to raise it (ex. Vorshlag's E46 ZHP Autox car)


The S54 isn't much different, it still has crank harmonic issues, although not as bad. An aluminum block would only make it worse.

Iron is far superior for absorbing and dealing with vibration, period.

An aluminum block just seems like you're asking for trouble.

Considering such an item doesn't exist and the only capacity would be creating one from scratch at insane cost (not very economical or smart ) ; aluminum is possible-

Would need a btcc budget and capacity ; they do things like reverse the rotation of the engine to mount front engine to front midship; btcc Honda Accord

Anything is possible with modern technology and insane expense.

Might have to destroke it to stay intact; the s54 is brilliant from rpm and cylinder head side; a custom alloy block for that head could be produced in short stroke.