N54 swap?

[Northern]

Do you mean that running arp and mls on a stock, healthy M50 (to turbo later on) will cause reliability issues? I'm new to this but from all the research I've done that doesn't seem correct.

I have heard a lot of MLS failures on 24v's. If your prep is 100% on point, you should be alright.

[pandaboo911]

You don't need an mls unless you go past 25psi. Anything under a paper gasket with o-rings will do.

I think the cutring gaskets are the best. Screw mls, too many things to go wrong


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[the imitator]

Do you mean that running arp and mls on a stock, healthy M50 (to turbo later on) will cause reliability issues? I'm new to this but from all the research I've done that doesn't seem correct.

Not hard at all to find multiple threads on people with issues, there has been 2 in the past 2 days. r3v members, but posting on facebook. You simply dont see consistency out with failures of those engines.

Even with all the prep work most of the time, they might last a while in SOME cases, so far i see maybe 3, or 4 GOOD examples of a reliable m5x/s5x car running stock everything making 400hp reliably, and has been for in such a period of time that you can call it a daily.

[e30polak]

A good running m52 w/ s52 cams and a precision 5858 on a stock head gasket with ARP head studs, 8 psi, good tuning and 93 octane will make a reliable 380-400whp/330-370wtq. Find a single Vanos aluminum z3 motor and do the same to it if you want to save weight.

The n54 is a great motor as well, and makes power so effortlessly. Once you replace the HPFP and service the expensive water pump and thermostat, it's damn reliable.

Not hard at all to find multiple threads on people with issues, there has been 2 in the past 2 days. r3v members, but posting on facebook. You simply dont see consistency out with failures of those engines.

Even with all the prep work most of the time, they might last a while in SOME cases, so far i see maybe 3, or 4 GOOD examples of a reliable m5x/s5x car running stock everything making 400hp reliably, and has been for in such a period of time that you can call it a daily.

That's because it comes down to cheaping out on componenets and not dialing in the tune. Go onto Bimmerforums and check how many reliable miles people put on bolt-on TRM turbo kits over the years without issues. E30 guys typically cheap out/half ass builds and that's why they end up with those results.

[Northern]

You don't need an mls unless you go past 25psi. Anything under a paper gasket with o-rings will do.

I think the cutring gaskets are the best. Screw mls, too many things to go wrong


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No way you're getting 25psi out of a stock compression M5x. 10psi, sure, maybe a little more, but not much.

[328ijunkie]

No way you're getting 25psi out of a stock compression M5x. 10psi, sure, maybe a little more, but not much.

What turbo? What octane? How much ing advance? :P
25psi at little to no advance with e85 on a stock motor would prob be fine. Would it make any power is another story

:P

[the imitator]

A good running m52 w/ s52 cams and a precision 5858 on a stock head gasket with ARP head studs, 8 psi, good tuning and 93 octane will make a reliable 380-400whp/330-370wtq. Find a single Vanos aluminum z3 motor and do the same to it if you want to save weight.

The n54 is a great motor as well, and makes power so effortlessly. Once you replace the HPFP and service the expensive water pump and thermostat, it's damn reliable.



That's because it comes down to cheaping out on components and not dialing in the tune. Go onto Bimmerforums and check how many reliable miles people put on bolt-on TRM turbo kits over the years without issues. E30 guys typically cheap out/half ass builds and that's why they end up with those results.

I can agree with that, but we are opening up the engine to do work.
The cost of these parts alone, Turbo, Manifold, Bov, Wastegate, ARP headstuds, new oem gasket, and a "good" tune;
That does add up fast especially when you're voicing to the crowd that IS willing to spend the extra dime for the better components,
like you sort of said, for the other crowd its fun while it lasts generally.

I frequent that site as well, Definitely fair to say the TRM kits are absolutely awesome!
I think the only down side is the starting cost of a TRM stage 1 kit is $6699.95 up to $8499.95 for the highest kit they offer.
We also know you can go a bit cheaper and buy a used kit though..

What turbo? What octane? How much ing advance? :P
25psi at little to no advance with e85 on a stock motor would prob be fine. Would it make any power is another story

:P

Dohhhc'mon! lol



Adding more to this N54 Swap thread..
N54 definitely has expensive fixes that have been mentioned in my thread and other various threads, Turbos, injectors, coils, hpfp, lpfp, water pump, thermostat as mentioned.

The hpfp, and lpfp issues were common, the recall was a long time ago, and the chances
of getting an n54 with a non replaced hpfp is small since it was a free extended offering through bmw.

The lpfp is the in tank fuel pump that the e30 community will eat alive, with a DIY it will be cheap.
It's just a regular walbro that we are used to seeing but in a casing.
Here's another example of steveAZ from fuel-it! It's an older DIY but it shows the simplicity none the less.


Water pump and thermostat aren't prone to breakage, shit happens very rarely, otherwise they last a long ass time.

The best part about all of this is you can monitor your HPFP.
Many N54 engines that have failed could have been easily prevented
simply by monitoring their engine via mhd, or whatever you wish to use,
You can see an HPFP slowly degrade and its easy to diagnose a bad hpfp before they fail.

For an example, at WOT an HPFP that pushes less that 1.5K PSI is sign of a degrading hpfp. Simple enough...
Also at idle the hpfp should start at around 1200PSI and drop to around 700psi, there are more specific numbers found elsewhere.

[pandaboo911]

N54 swap?

FourB builds 24v motors that run 20psi and above on stock headgasket with an o-ringed head

I run 15 on a stock headgasket no orings.
People blow gaskets cause they're tuning too lean or install them improperly.

Obviously they won't last 200k miles, maybe 10% of that if you're lucky.

FourB builds 1000+ hp 24v engines so I'm assuming he wouldn't recommend a stock headgasket if he doesn't know what he's talking about

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[the imitator]

Here's a list of 14 dyno's of some fun N54's with totally stock internals.

861whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkKhArm8Ods

676whp stock internals, auto transmission

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZXbTHWrn4

629whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjJZvYZsPJk

574whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNd0irM8gxc

649whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=capsSSGvtlU&list=FLGpj4QFdYABr2vNI

690whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqhoP-82jv0

705whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbxi5du3_w

703whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xETZYr8rVGY

665whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwXtR7FaUM

500whp/550wtq stock internals and stock turbos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtdTl5_iFcU

710whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE9ORMXn1gk

626whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1kSnFDNkA

motiv 750 turbo kit stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZD4N67cohk

707whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmTRiVdMWbA

[Northern]

What turbo? What octane? How much ing advance? :P
25psi at little to no advance with e85 on a stock motor would prob be fine. Would it make any power is another story

:P

I always forget about E85. Probably because it isn't a thing around here (unfortunately...)

[DesertBMW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0aqXjzHw8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrOMW9igbA0

[the imitator]

Thanks DesertBMW for sharing some in depth photos of HakenTT driving, and his car, he was definitely an inspiration for me... Looks like a nice fit :)

Here's Another nasty N54 E30 swap that went through vigorous bench testing on stock internals. As you can see its two stock manifolds chopped and welded to fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhO4TnmMDY

[e30polak]

Here's a list of 14 dyno's of some fun N54's with totally stock internals.

861whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkKhArm8Ods

676whp stock internals, auto transmission

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZXbTHWrn4

629whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjJZvYZsPJk

574whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNd0irM8gxc

649whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=capsSSGvtlU&list=FLGpj4QFdYABr2vNI

690whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqhoP-82jv0

705whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbxi5du3_w

703whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xETZYr8rVGY

665whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwXtR7FaUM

500whp/550wtq stock internals and stock turbos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtdTl5_iFcU

710whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE9ORMXn1gk

626whp stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1kSnFDNkA

motiv 750 turbo kit stock internals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZD4N67cohk

707whp stock internals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmTRiVdMWbA

All great, but there are plenty of stock internal m/s50/2 engines making that much and more. Head gaskets and ARP studs aren't internals. If you're talking about un-opened motors, then yea, a lower compression motor that was built for boost like the n54 with 15+ year newer technology SHOULD be able to handle more.

I only like n54s with upgraded twins, single turbos ruin the car. If you want a good single turbo car, turbo an s52, much better powerband and makes more torque, much earlier.

[DesertBMW]

All great, but there are plenty of stock internal m/s50/2 engines making that much and more. Head gaskets and ARP studs aren't internals. If you're talking about un-opened motors, then yea,
I only like n54s with upgraded twins, single turbos ruin the car. If you want a good single turbo car, turbo an s52, much better powerband and makes more torque, much earlier.

You have never done N54/N55 swap into anything else so why should your opinion be considered here? It is clear you know nothing about N54 and advantages that is has over obsolete technology.

[the imitator]

All great, but there are plenty of stock internal m/s50/2 engines making that much and more. Head gaskets and ARP studs aren't internals. If you're talking about un-opened motors, then yea, a lower compression motor that was built for boost like the n54 with 15+ year newer technology DOES handle more.

I only like n54s with upgraded twins, single turbos ruin the car. If you want a good single turbo car, turbo an s52, much better powerband and makes more torque, much earlier.

Edited ^^^

Okay wait, where do ARP headstuds go? Where does a headgasket install again?
Definitely not outside the engine, and the parts are definitely not found on the engines originally.
How are these not internal upgrades, I didn't say anything about rotating assembly, is that what you meant?

If you go back and read the origins of where this whole comparison started, yes it was compared to unopened engines, and then slowly graduated to cutring gasket, and ARP headstuds.

Again there may be plenty, but how many are daily drivers, Im not seeing very many.
There's a slough of s5x turbo engines in the 400-500 range, but 600-700hp stock, not seeing very many that can be considered even close to daily drivers.