N52 Swap Discussion

[MWC]

Does anyone here know if the water pumps on these engines use BMWs BSD protocol? Can they be controlled with a regular PWM signal like the CWA 400 pumps on the later F series cars?

[hoveringuy]

Does anyone here know if the water pumps on these engines use BMWs BSD protocol? Can they be controlled with a regular PWM signal like the CWA 400 pumps on the later F series cars?

No BSD on these, just PWM.

[ralle30]

If you're looking for ideas on how to adapt a prius-powered column, this guy did a bit of fabrication to put it on the engine side of the firewall (of course, he's got tons of empty space in a huge engine compartment)
Add Power Steering To Any Car - YouTube

[MWC]

No BSD on these, just PWM.

Ok so they are different than the units used on the N54? Those are BSD correct? I am reading so much conflicting information on these things and I really don't want to engineer all of the coolant lines only to have to do it over again if the stock pump isn't PWM.

[nando]

I'm pretty sure it is BSD. N54 pumps are similar, just higher output (and ironically, made of plastic).

[MWC]

I'm pretty sure it is BSD. N54 pumps are similar, just higher output (and ironically, made of plastic).

Yes and the N54 ones are known to fail for that reason lol.

This really blows that they're BSD. I don't think it's going to be possible for me to run it as the standalones only have normal PWM outputs. I wonder if the CWA200s right from pierburg are different. This is the last hardware issue I've yet to nail down.

[hoveringuy]

Even if it is BSD, it probably still works as PWM. BSD just the internal way of controlling and communicating speed?

I'll be getting a new pump in a month or so, could play with the old one

[MWC]

These guys: https://www.tecomotive.com/en/products/tinycwa.html were able to confirm that the Pierburg pumps can operate via BSD or as a normal PWM. Only the continental pumps are BSD only.

I think for my build I'm going to eliminate the thermostat all together. This will allow me to eliminate the hose that runs across the front of the engine entirely and connect the water pump directly to the radiator outlet. Only thing left to figure out is where to incorporate an expansion tank.

[hoveringuy]

These guys: https://www.tecomotive.com/en/products/tinycwa.html were able to confirm that the Pierburg pumps can operate via BSD or as a normal PWM. Only the continental pumps are BSD only.

I think for my build I'm going to eliminate the thermostat all together. This will allow me to eliminate the hose that runs across the front of the engine entirely and connect the water pump directly to the radiator outlet. Only thing left to figure out is where to incorporate an expansion tank.

There are only 2 reasons to have the "big" crossover pipe and they don't involve the thermostat. 1) connect the expansion tank to the system from drivers side 2) heater core return. If you don't have a heater core you could certainly mount the reservoir on the pax side and eliminate that pipe.

The Mickey Mouse hose you're talking about flows parallel to the radiator, bypasses the thermostat to ensure that some coolant is still flowing when the thermostat is fully closed, when the motor is warming up. Without a thermostat it would be redundant and you could block Mickey. Biggest downside to eliminating the thermostat, IMO, is it would take longer to warm-up. It may even over-cool the motor; the pump and thermostat kinda work together to balance cooling.

[MWC]

There are only 2 reasons to have the "big" crossover pipe and they don't involve the thermostat. 1) connect the expansion tank to the system from drivers side 2) heater core return. If you don't have a heater core you could certainly mount the reservoir on the pax side and eliminate that pipe.

The Mickey Mouse hose you're talking about flows parallel to the radiator, bypasses the thermostat to ensure that some coolant is still flowing when the thermostat is fully closed, when the motor is warming up. Without a thermostat it would be redundant and you could block Mickey. Biggest downside to eliminating the thermostat, IMO, is it would take longer to warm-up. It may even over-cool the motor; the pump and thermostat kinda work together to balance cooling.

Fook when I said the crossover pipe I meant the mickey mouse hose. It's been a while since I read through the whole thread and I forgot about the pipe you made that crosses over to the driver's side.

I wouldn't eliminate the thermostat for a street car, but in this case the car will basically only spend time on the race track and I'm not worried about it over cooling. It eliminates a failure point and should make the hoses easier to route too.

My motor came from an X3 and thus has the oil cooler. It has a hose that comes down and T's into the metal pipe between the water pump outlet and the block. That T has a very small T off of it as well and I have no idea what it's for. I'm guessing the expansion tank? but it's downstream of the water pump. I always thought expansion tanks were plumbed in parallel to the radiator. I feel like I'm losing it lol. My friend has an X3 3.0si and I'm going to see if I can have a look at it to figure out what's going on.

[Bmwtech07]

I am not a big fan of electric power steering. I have yet to find one that feels organic. In my experience there is always a "tension" that you have to overcome before the motor kicks in.

[nando]

yeah, the electric power steering on our X3 is pretty terrible. The on-center feel, especially at highway speeds, is exhausting. And there is almost no feedback.

[nando]

Wow I’ve read through this whole thread, so much good info in here! I’m set on an n52 swap into my e36 and this has been the most in depth tread I’ve found on the electrical end of things seeing as e30 and e36 are very similar in that respect. My question is to nando, would you be able to do a tune if I sent you an ecu? I am looking to do basically the same setup as hoveringguy with n54 intake. Or conversely point me in the direction of someone who would be able to set up a reliable tune. I don’t need every possible hp so I’m hoping to avoid dropping $1500 on a dyno haha! I’m in Canada btw so if you’re aware of someone up here who could accomplish this lmk. Again, so much amazing work has gone into this to enable more people to do this swap!

Sorry I missed this post. yes, I can do the swap flash. What part of Canada are you in? I might be able to partner up with MarkD - he's in Toronto. Otherwise, you have to ship the DME to me in the USA. I used to just hop over the border and pick up/ship from my in-laws, but thanks to covid that isn't possible right now. You can of course ship it directly to me, which will cost extra. But I haven't done any international shipments in a while so I don't know what new problems there are.

[Cdmef]

Hey nando, thanks for the reply. I am a couple hours from Toronto so I could connect with markD. I like the idea of eliminating cas and making the swap as simple as possible, which brings me to the wiring aspect. I am not strong in that department but do have a friend who has a batter aptitude. Do you think it’s worth looking at the swap harness available on eBay or will it be quite straight forward? I have a line on a complete running/driving ‘08 328… I think 06/07 is a bit better in terms of how the relays integrate into wiring?

[nando]

I don't know about anything about the swap harnesses on ebay - do you know who makes it?

I'd be curious because without an EWS delete you need the full CAN bus and CAS module to start the car. If that's what it is, then I'd say no that's not worth it. You'll end up with *more* wires, lol.