E34 525ix info

[nando]

I have a pump but need the pickup tube - if you find one, yes I'd want it! :)

I believe the pump is the same as any other M50 engine?

[Nisse Järnet]

I have a pump but need the pickup tube - if you find one, yes I'd want it! :)

I believe the pump is the same as any other M50 engine?

It may take some time but ill contact you when i have one:-)

Im not sure, maybe it is? Ill try to get my hands on one either way to check.

[nando]

so my initial assessment of RWD E34 mount arms not fitting appears to be wrong - they line up with the ix mount towers pretty much dead on! I have a loosely fit together mockup sitting on the floor. No transmission, so I can't confirm yet that the engine will be in the "stock" position:






when I have a transmission I can check the relative location of the transfercase/transmission to the subframe. right now there's a very small gap between the rubber "bump stops" on the subframe and the oil pan. I can't remember if they're supposed to fit snug, or if there's supposed to be a gap - but with it snug up, the mounts are a tiny bit too far forward. these are also original 20 year old rubber bits so they're probably a bit deformed though.

other unanswered questions are mounting height of the engine and whether the mount arms actually reach the mount supports. but it looks like the geometry is at least correct, spacers could possibly be used to account for the rest.

[Nisse Järnet]

Great pics! It really looks like you can just mod the "towers" if needed if its this close.

[nando]

Yeah, the next step is getting some mounts to check the height and what else may need adjusted.

Still hoping for 100% bolt on!

[Nisse Järnet]

Sounds great :)

[flyboyx]

I have a pump but need the pickup tube - if you find one, yes I'd want it! :)

I believe the pump is the same as any other M50 engine?

the pump shows a different part number on realoem but physically, it looks exactly the same as a standard m50 pump on the outside. i haven't taken them both apart to see if the internals are the same. i do have to assume that since the part numbers are different, perhaps the ix pump is a little higher output?

so my initial assessment of RWD E34 mount arms not fitting appears to be wrong - they line up with the ix mount towers pretty much dead on! I have a loosely fit together mockup sitting on the floor. No transmission, so I can't confirm yet that the engine will be in the "stock" position:






when I have a transmission I can check the relative location of the transfercase/transmission to the subframe. right now there's a very small gap between the rubber "bump stops" on the subframe and the oil pan. I can't remember if they're supposed to fit snug, or if there's supposed to be a gap - but with it snug up, the mounts are a tiny bit too far forward. these are also original 20 year old rubber bits so they're probably a bit deformed though.

other unanswered questions are mounting height of the engine and whether the mount arms actually reach the mount supports. but it looks like the geometry is at least correct, spacers could possibly be used to account for the rest.

i know my e30 tech thread is full of lots of rambling and the photos are gone, but all of this is already located in there somewhere.


yes, the mount arms fit like that for me as well. the geometry is indeed correct as your pics show. this takes care of all the hard work in placing the engine. however, they need to be moved out about 1/2" on each side to line up with the subframe holes properly. also, if you measure from your firewall, you will see that they also need to be moved back on the engine(ie: move the engine forward in relation to the mount arms) an inch or so to clear (the firewall). basically, the e34 m50 mount arms are a great start as you can see there. however, they need to be widened and moved back to actually work. my plan is to make 1/4" plate steel adapter brackets and place them between the block and mount arms. very simple (almost) one dimensional fabrication.

as far as motor mounts are concerned, you are going to need to experiment a little here. they will need to be as short as possible to provide about 3/8" clearance between the oil pan and subframe/steering rack. . i think perhaps the stock e30 ix motor mounts would do.(once the arms are placed properly)


i am still around with all my parts and projects. you can always pm me with questions. i just don't post much on the other forum anymore. the members that do post there are still great. i have just become disenchanted is all.

[Nisse Järnet]

Great post right there, good info :)

[nando]

the pump shows a different part number on realoem but physically, it looks exactly the same as a standard m50 pump on the outside. i haven't taken them both apart to see if the internals are the same. i do have to assume that since the part numbers are different, perhaps the ix pump is a little higher output?



i know my e30 tech thread is full of lots of rambling and the photos are gone, but all of this is already located in there somewhere.


yes, the mount arms fit like that for me as well. the geometry is indeed correct as your pics show. this takes care of all the hard work in placing the engine. however, they need to be moved out about 1/2" on each side to line up with the subframe holes properly. also, if you measure from your firewall, you will see that they also need to be moved back on the engine(ie: move the engine forward in relation to the mount arms) an inch or so to clear (the firewall). basically, the e34 m50 mount arms are a great start as you can see there. however, they need to be widened and moved back to actually work. my plan is to make 1/4" plate steel adapter brackets and place them between the block and mount arms. very simple (almost) one dimensional fabrication.

as far as motor mounts are concerned, you are going to need to experiment a little here. they will need to be as short as possible to provide about 3/8" clearance between the oil pan and subframe/steering rack. . i think perhaps the stock e30 ix motor mounts would do.(once the arms are placed properly)


i am still around with all my parts and projects. you can always pm me with questions. i just don't post much on the other forum anymore. the members that do post there are still great. i have just become disenchanted is all.

I think your pictures were already dead by the time I first saw your thread :(

anyway, I'd forgot you mentioned the E34 arms. I bought them some time ago, probably when you suggested them.

But, as far as the position - I thought we had determined that the diff was possibly 1" further forward on the E34 oil pan than the E30? thus, where you figured the mounts should be would be 1" off as well?

just laying it on the floor things seemed to fit pretty well, but I want to have my transmission and transfercase built first so I can really nail down the correct position for the engine. Some sort of adapter plates may be needed like you say, but there's not much point in thinking about it until I know where I want the engine to be. :)

I need to find a chain, front output sprocket and order a seal kit to build one of my spare transfercases soon..

[flyboyx]

i determined the engine placement by measuring the distance from the firewall to the engine mount holes on the sub frame of my parts car. i then measured from the motor mount arms placed on my junk m50 to the back of the head. there is about 1" of interference between the two.


the diff is indeed further forward an inch so that is a good point. the s52 is already tight against the firewall in my rwd car. it rubs slightly on the firewall insulation. i guess the easiest way to make it fit the ix would be to remove the foam insulation off the firewall and "adjust" it a little. that is something i would hope to avoid though.

i wonder if it could be done so the engine is moved back only 1/2" or so? the biggest problem with the engine being forward is that the front axles MAY have a clearance problem with the rearmost ears on the subframe. e30 m3 front control arm bushings would make this problem worse. otherwise, having the engine forward a bit more is really no big deal.

which trans did you decide to go with? getrag or the zf? seems like i remember recently that you were considering the getrag again?

[Nisse Järnet]

I think your pictures were already dead by the time I first saw your thread :(

anyway, I'd forgot you mentioned the E34 arms. I bought them some time ago, probably when you suggested them.

But, as far as the position - I thought we had determined that the diff was possibly 1" further forward on the E34 oil pan than the E30? thus, where you figured the mounts should be would be 1" off as well?

just laying it on the floor things seemed to fit pretty well, but I want to have my transmission and transfercase built first so I can really nail down the correct position for the engine. Some sort of adapter plates may be needed like you say, but there's not much point in thinking about it until I know where I want the engine to be. :)

I need to find a chain, front output sprocket and order a seal kit to build one of my spare transfercases soon..

Are you going to use E30 or E34 TC?

[nando]

E30

as far as I can tell, the E34 TC isn't really that great - I don't believe the locking mechanism can vary the %, it's either on or off. but, I don't know that for certain, few have tried it.

also want to keep things pretty much bolt on which is possible with the E30 TC, and it's plenty strong enough.

it's also impossible to buy parts to rebuild an E34 TC - BMW doesn't sell any internals. I can get a chain and bearings locally for the E30 TC. it's a bit ironic if you think about it.

E34 may make more sense if you're in Europe and you can get them easily. here, it makes a lot less sense.

[nando]

i determined the engine placement by measuring the distance from the firewall to the engine mount holes on the sub frame of my parts car. i then measured from the motor mount arms placed on my junk m50 to the back of the head. there is about 1" of interference between the two.


the diff is indeed further forward an inch so that is a good point. the s52 is already tight against the firewall in my rwd car. it rubs slightly on the firewall insulation. i guess the easiest way to make it fit the ix would be to remove the foam insulation off the firewall and "adjust" it a little. that is something i would hope to avoid though.

i wonder if it could be done so the engine is moved back only 1/2" or so? the biggest problem with the engine being forward is that the front axles MAY have a clearance problem with the rearmost ears on the subframe. e30 m3 front control arm bushings would make this problem worse. otherwise, having the engine forward a bit more is really no big deal.

which trans did you decide to go with? getrag or the zf? seems like i remember recently that you were considering the getrag again?

yeah, I don't know. the M20 is already tight against the firewall on the stock ix. Moving the engine forward a smidge might work out fine, but I'm going to base everything on the position of the original transmission/transfercase to the subframe. basically the bellhousing face will be in the same place it is on the M20.

I think the engine should fit. I'll have the entire thing assembled with the subframe so I should be able to see any interference issues ahead of time. I'm not really sure I read you on the CV shaft clearance issues though - I'd think a half inch forward or backward wouldn't make much difference? Again, having it all mocked up ahead of time will be the key! :)

I'll be using a getrag 260. already purchased part of it, still need to find a core ix transmission to build one that will work with the 24v engine angle.

the ZF ironically is much more expensive, plus I'd have to come up with some sort of custom fabricated adapter plate for the transfercase. I just don't have time for stuff like that.

gearing isn't ideal either way - too short with the ZF and too long with the getrag. I'm hoping it'll be easier to build a higher ratio front diff than it was to build a lower ratio version, as higher ratio ring and pinions for the type 168 are much more common. I'm thinking 3.64 or 3.73. also, I believe the VC in my current rear diff is shot. :(

[Nisse Järnet]

E30

as far as I can tell, the E34 TC isn't really that great - I don't believe the locking mechanism can vary the %, it's either on or off. but, I don't know that for certain, few have tried it.

also want to keep things pretty much bolt on which is possible with the E30 TC, and it's plenty strong enough.

it's also impossible to buy parts to rebuild an E34 TC - BMW doesn't sell any internals. I can get a chain and bearings locally for the E30 TC. it's a bit ironic if you think about it.

E34 may make more sense if you're in Europe and you can get them easily. here, it makes a lot less sense.

Yeah theres not much info on the E34 one.
I will test it and see how it works, i have a dialog with ZF but they dont seem to be willing to share info :P

You can get new chain etc for it but its pricey..

Yes the E30 TC holds for lots of power!

[flyboyx]

it would be really cool to take an e34 xfer case apart and compare the locking device and other internal components to an e30's.

pretty sure the e34 has an electrical plug on the outside of the housing that actuates the coupling magnetically.

it would be a lot to expect, but i wonder if parts could be swapped around between the two cases in order to perhaps make the e30 case stronger.