E34 525ix info

[The Dark Side of Will]

Great! Thanks!

Just checked..

BH to CL of axle:
~11 3/8"
BH to front of sump:
15 1/4"

E53 I6 pan:
BH to axle CL: 11 1/4"
BH to sump: 15"

So if the E34 pan works, the E53 6 cylinder pan will also fit. Of course the E53 pan will take a U-jointed driveshaft, but I don't think that's a big deal.

The axle centerlines are a non-issue UNLESS the excess angle on the outer is such that it runs out of travel before the steering rack does... but I'm guessing you'd have to move the inner joint a LOT for that to happen.

I don't think any of the alternative pans can use the snubber on the crossmember.

I'll check the E39 V8 arms when I get my engine on the stand... soon.

Got the same measurments as Nando.

Thanks! I didn't know you spoke inches

[Nisse Järnet]

Great! Thanks!





So if the E34 pan works, the E53 6 cylinder pan will also fit. Of course the E53 pan will take a U-jointed driveshaft, but I don't think that's a big deal.

The axle centerlines are a non-issue UNLESS the excess angle on the outer is such that it runs out of travel before the steering rack does... but I'm guessing you'd have to move the inner joint a LOT for that to happen.

I don't think any of the alternative pans can use the snubber on the crossmember.

I'll check the E39 V8 arms when I get my engine on the stand... soon.



Thanks! I didn't know you spoke inches

Haha i dont, google converted them for me :)

Isnt there a clearence issue with the E53 parts, diff hitting the steering rack servo fittings or something?
I got a E53 3.07 front diff but no E53 pan yet, hope i can use it and pair it with my 210 3.07 rear :)

[The Dark Side of Will]

Haha i dont, google converted them for me :)

Isnt there a clearence issue with the E53 parts, diff hitting the steering rack servo fittings or something?
I got a E53 3.07 front diff but no E53 pan yet, hope i can use it and pair it with my 210 3.07 rear :)

There is a clearance problem. I'll know more when I get my crossmember bolted up to my engine. However, it looks like the steering rack spool valve assembly bumps into the E53 diff.

I am reasonably sure this can be solved by tilting the steering rack "up" so that the pinion shaft is closer to vertical. I have a solid idea on how to do this, but I need to get some machine shop time to make it happen.

[Nisse Järnet]

There is a clearance problem. I'll know more when I get my crossmember bolted up to my engine. However, it looks like the steering rack spool valve assembly bumps into the E53 diff.

I am reasonably sure this can be solved by tilting the steering rack "up" so that the pinion shaft is closer to vertical. I have a solid idea on how to do this, but I need to get some machine shop time to make it happen.

Ah ok, so thats pretty much the only problem? (except drive shafts etc)
Hmm i think i have to get my hands on a E53 oil pan :)
3.07 would be better than 3.38!

[nando]

Great! Thanks!

So if the E34 pan works, the E53 6 cylinder pan will also fit. Of course the E53 pan will take a U-jointed driveshaft, but I don't think that's a big deal.

The axle centerlines are a non-issue UNLESS the excess angle on the outer is such that it runs out of travel before the steering rack does... but I'm guessing you'd have to move the inner joint a LOT for that to happen.

I don't think any of the alternative pans can use the snubber on the crossmember.

I'll check the E39 V8 arms when I get my engine on the stand... soon.

yeah, possibly the E53 pan could be an alternative if you can work out the rack issues. the E34 pan clears the rack no problem. although I haven't tested with the diff mounted it doesn't look like it obviously hits.

now that I know where the axle centerline is supposed to be, I'll remove the snubber thing and see how the mount arms align. they're going to be too far forward for sure. they're also too narrow..

I would like to figure out a way to keep a snubber of some sort. I think it's important given the extra stress the ix mounts see. also, there are built-in rubber bumper things on the ix engine mounts for side to side movement. I never realized what they were until recently, pretty clever. unfortunately, they're NLA. :(

I believe the E39 6cyl mount arms will be much too far back. maybe I can find one to test fit, I could be wrong.

the lynch pin in my plan is the engine/trans must be in the same position as the original M20, or it won't work. I think it can be done using 100% stock parts (aside from engine mount arms).

Got the same measurments as Nando.

What trans do you want?

Cool. I measured with a yardstick I had laying around, it might not be exactly 11 3/8" but it's close. and if you take the 5/8" change over a ~24" long shaft, the angle change is pretty small.

as far as the trans, I'll be using a Getrag 260. part of it should be arriving from Germany sometime early next year, the other half I have to source stateside somewhere. the plan right now is to send it to be built by geardrive.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Ah ok, so thats pretty much the only problem? (except drive shafts etc)
Hmm i think i have to get my hands on a E53 oil pan :)
3.07 would be better than 3.38!

I'm doing a 32V swap with S62... so I'm VERY concerned about clearance between the firewall and the back of the left cylinder head. So for me the fore/aft distance between the back of the crossmember and the pedal box area of the firewall is very important.

All the measurements I can take right now tell me it will *probably* fit but will be REALLY REALLY REALLY close.

[The Dark Side of Will]

now that I know where the axle centerline is supposed to be, I'll remove the snubber thing and see how the mount arms align. they're going to be too far forward for sure. they're also too narrow..

The photos made it look like they wouldn't fit, but it's also hard to tell from the photo without mounts in between the arms and towers.
Those arms might work just by flipping the mounts and drilling a new hole in the towers...

Also, can you take a photo straight on from the left? It looks like tilting the rack forward to clear the E53 diff would hit the E34 mount arm.

[nando]

I'm pretty sure the snubber wouldn't fit because it was about 1/8" away with the mount arms centered over the engine mount holes on the subframe. Based on your measurements I'd have to move the sump forward 1.25".

I can definitely get another pic straight from the left, I just have to piece it back together again. I might try this time with the diff installed on the oil pan (it's just grimey and I don't want to touch it).

you can't really flip the mount arms but maybe I could use different holes.. the mount arms will be about 1.375" too far forward (based off current measurements and my original mockup), so maybe knowing that, different mount arms could work (I have one e36 arm to test)

[nando]

The photos made it look like they wouldn't fit, but it's also hard to tell from the photo without mounts in between the arms and towers.
Those arms might work just by flipping the mounts and drilling a new hole in the towers...

Also, can you take a photo straight on from the left? It looks like tilting the rack forward to clear the E53 diff would hit the E34 mount arm.

just did some more test fitment - I'm having some rack clearance issues as well.

took out the snubber, but the oil pan/diff hit the steering rack. I need it to move another 1" forward for this to fit.. even if I wanted to leave it that way, the head wouldn't clear the firewall being 1" back.

Just for kicks I test fitted with an E46 xi rack. actually, it clears a bit better (especially the diff, might want to give that some thought) but the fittings for the pressure lines hit the engine mount.

anyway, I'll put the E30 rack back in with the E34 mount arm and take a pic from the left for you.

I'm not really sure how to get that extra 1". perhaps modifying the oil pan, but the diff would still hit. maybe an entirely different steering rack would be the way to go.. anyone tested how a RWD E36 rack sits on an E30 subframe?

[The Dark Side of Will]

you can't really flip the mount arms but maybe I could use different holes.. the mount arms will be about 1.375" too far forward (based off current measurements and my original mockup), so maybe knowing that, different mount arms could work (I have one e36 arm to test)

I was referring to flipping the rubber mounts around between the towers and arms.

[nando]

I'm not sure I understand? the rubber mounts are centered, not offset?

ok, got that pic you asked for. yes, if you rotate the ix steering rack up, it will hit the E34 mount arm. but the E34 mount arm is too far inward and too far forward anyway.



Going back to the E46 rack - I'm starting to think it really is the way to go here. I know there are some geometry drawbacks, but it almost fits as-is without any crazy angles. I'd have to make a clearance hole in the subframe for one banjo fitting, and the one on the back side of the rack would have to be re-routed over the top instead of the bottom, but I think those are solvable problems. a simple 3/8" thick steel plate that you mount the rack to, then bolt that to the subframe, should work.

with the E30 rack all the way up against the E34 diff, there's more than 2" of clearance between the subframe and the sump (the snubber is about 2" long, and the sump doesn't touch it).

snubber:


E30 rack fitment (not good):






E46 rack fitment (not perfect but better)




with the E46 rack positioned as best as I can without a mounting plate, I can get it much closer. it's harder to measure but perhaps it's just over 1". maybe that could be lived with.. I'd have to check firewall clearance.

the E46 rack does get close to the stock engine mount but it really looks to me like the engine mount arm/platform will have to be modified/custom anyway.

[nando]

Did one more mock up - it looks like with the e46 rack, i can move the engine forward about 3/4" closer to the ideal spot. The subframe will need work, as will the mount arms.

I dont think the stock ix rack has any hope of fitting unless you are willing to move the firewall.. i'm not.

The other potential answer is maybe the E53 pan is simply a better choice, with the E46 xi rack it shouldnt hit the diff, and it should be possible to move the engine all the way forward.

[flyboyx]

Did one more mock up - it looks like with the e46 rack, i can move the engine forward about 3/4" closer to the ideal spot. The subframe will need work, as will the mount arms.

I dont think the stock ix rack has any hope of fitting unless you are willing to move the firewall.. i'm not.

The other potential answer is maybe the E53 pan is simply a better choice, with the E46 xi rack it shouldnthit the diff, and it should be possible to move the engine all the way forward.

nice work chris.

not messing with the firewall would be so much better if possible. on a stock e30ix, the front axles pass really close to the mounting tabs on the back of the subframe. moving the engine forward could cause an interference there too.

what about simply moving the subrame forward an inch or so? (steering geometry issues?

[nando]

I thought about that too but I don't think you want to put funky angles into the tie rods if you can avoid it. I believe the E46 rack can be installed on the same centerline as the stock rack, but the subframe needs to be modified somehow for it to bolt to it.

[Nisse Järnet]

yeah, possibly the E53 pan could be an alternative if you can work out the rack issues. the E34 pan clears the rack no problem. although I haven't tested with the diff mounted it doesn't look like it obviously hits.

now that I know where the axle centerline is supposed to be, I'll remove the snubber thing and see how the mount arms align. they're going to be too far forward for sure. they're also too narrow..

I would like to figure out a way to keep a snubber of some sort. I think it's important given the extra stress the ix mounts see. also, there are built-in rubber bumper things on the ix engine mounts for side to side movement. I never realized what they were until recently, pretty clever. unfortunately, they're NLA. :(

I believe the E39 6cyl mount arms will be much too far back. maybe I can find one to test fit, I could be wrong.

the lynch pin in my plan is the engine/trans must be in the same position as the original M20, or it won't work. I think it can be done using 100% stock parts (aside from engine mount arms).



Cool. I measured with a yardstick I had laying around, it might not be exactly 11 3/8" but it's close. and if you take the 5/8" change over a ~24" long shaft, the angle change is pretty small.

as far as the trans, I'll be using a Getrag 260. part of it should be arriving from Germany sometime early next year, the other half I have to source stateside somewhere. the plan right now is to send it to be built by geardrive.

Yeah converted my measures and it said 11. something so i thought thats close enough :)

A M30 260 or a M20?