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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Nope... at least not per the ETK at RealOEM. Six cylinder cars got the DZ and 8 cylinder cars got the BZ. E60 & F10 V8's got the BZ, E60 & F10 535i's got the DZ, E90 335i's got the DZ

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  • Nisse Järnet
    replied
    Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
    Here's a .pdf with (modest) info about the T-case: http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/e7...Powertrain.pdf

    Also, I was just looking through RealOEM to see which applications had the GS6-53BZ and which had the GS6-53DZ. It looks like the 6 cylinder turbo cars got the DZ and the 8 cylinder cars got the BZ. I'm not entirely sure of the ratios, as I can't find consistent info on them on the internets.

    I *think* the case is that the DZ has 5.03 first and 0.84 6th, while the BZ has 4.03 (or 4.30?) first and 0.87 sixth. If I have both because I need the 6 cylinder rear housing with the 8 cylinder front housing, I should be able to build my desired gearset with the tallest gears. Interdasting.
    BZ is petrol and DZ is diesel if im not mistaken?

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Here's a .pdf with (modest) info about the T-case: http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/e7...Powertrain.pdf

    Also, I was just looking through RealOEM to see which applications had the GS6-53BZ and which had the GS6-53DZ. It looks like the 6 cylinder turbo cars got the DZ and the 8 cylinder cars got the BZ. I'm not entirely sure of the ratios, as I can't find consistent info on them on the internets.

    I *think* the case is that the DZ has 5.03 first and 0.84 6th, while the BZ has 4.03 (or 4.30?) first and 0.87 sixth. If I have both because I need the 6 cylinder rear housing with the 8 cylinder front housing, I should be able to build my desired gearset with the tallest gears. Interdasting.

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  • Nisse Järnet
    replied
    Originally posted by mw044 View Post
    Xdrive transfer case actuator has hall sensor on the motor axle (20 pulses / rev) and directional sensor that tells the direction the motor is rotating. Also there's temp sensor etc.

    There is no actual position information available without some mathematics. However - I'm going to install position sensor on the actuator axle that turns the transfercase axle. That way it hopefully can be controlled with autronic (this is not my strongest area :D)

    I'm probably going to use speed sensors in rear diff (original) and another one at the front diff (maybe at the pinion flange). Then maybe control it with slip% (if it reacts fast enough) or just to be locked all the time when @ WOT. And I really do hope that it never ever opens during WOT. That could be catastrophic. When I tested the car with rwd only there was zero traction @ wot no matter what speed. :D
    You could set up the SM4 traction control to act like a backup if the AWD malfunctions :)

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  • mw044
    replied
    Xdrive transfer case actuator has hall sensor on the motor axle (20 pulses / rev) and directional sensor that tells the direction the motor is rotating. Also there's temp sensor etc.

    There is no actual position information available without some mathematics. However - I'm going to install position sensor on the actuator axle that turns the transfercase axle. That way it hopefully can be controlled with autronic (this is not my strongest area :D)

    I'm probably going to use speed sensors in rear diff (original) and another one at the front diff (maybe at the pinion flange). Then maybe control it with slip% (if it reacts fast enough) or just to be locked all the time when @ WOT. And I really do hope that it never ever opens during WOT. That could be catastrophic. When I tested the car with rwd only there was zero traction @ wot no matter what speed. :D

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Originally posted by Nisse Järnet View Post
    I think there's a sensor in the actuator motor so the TC controller knows where the actuator is.
    I would try to control it directly with the ECU and front/rear speed sensors like my traction control setup for example.
    I can be wrong since I haven't looked interesting the xDrive yet but I think mw044 has :)
    Yeah, it looks like a DC motor with an encoder... not hard to drive.
    I was hoping there were speed sensors on the front and rear outputs, but I guess the OE controller gets wheel speed data over CAN. For mine I could pirate the VSS in the rear diff and maybe install a pickup on the front drive sprocket teeth inside the unit to see front shaft speed.

    In building my own controller, I'd be able to set up a launch function. I envision this as pushing a momentary switch for 3 seconds with the vehicle stopped or at a very low speed, which signals the controller to go to 100% lock and maintain that until vehicle speed rises above 15 mph (for example).

    I plan to use an accelerometer to map lockup vs. lateral or longitudinal acceleration. I might eventually try a steering angle sensor for a little more input.

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    If I were going to run a $3000 ViPEC, I'd definitely have it handle the T-case.

    An MSS52 with a tune should be fine for me.

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  • Nisse Järnet
    replied
    Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
    Right now I'm planning to use the stock MSS52 to run the S62.
    Oh ok, then something like you said makes more sense :)

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Right now I'm planning to use the stock MSS52 to run the S62.

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  • Nisse Järnet
    replied
    I think there's a sensor in the actuator motor so the TC controller knows where the actuator is.
    I would try to control it directly with the ECU and front/rear speed sensors like my traction control setup for example.
    I can be wrong since I haven't looked interesting the xDrive yet but I think mw044 has :)

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Originally posted by mw044 View Post
    Hope so. :D

    More bolt-on stuff here. E9x 335i Gs6-53bz and e70 x5 (6 cylinder) atc700 transfer case (compared to e30 ix stuff):


    Money shot. The semi-divorced nature of the E30 T-case and the guibo between the trans and T-case extend the E30 driveline so much that the close-coupled T-case of the new driveline locates the rear face of the drop only about 2-3" further back. Fun.

    You said you're going to control the T-case with your fancy ECU. Do you know how the original controller works? Are there speed sensors in the T-case that detect front/rear output speeds and the controller actuates the clutch to keep them within 2% (or whatever?)? or does it get wheel speeds via the CAN bus from the ABS? Does it receive a commanded front drive torque from the traction control via CAN bus?

    I think for the purposes of an E30, I could design and build one via Rasberry Pi or Ardruino. Especially with output shaft speed sensors, it would be easy to construct a map to vary allowable rear-to-front slip as a function of vehicle speed. I could use a power steering pressure switch to tell it I'm in a turn and change the map up for more front end bite.

    It would be really slick to use the CAN bus data to make it react to throttle position, and maybe even brake application... There's an E46 CAN bus decoding effort, specifically to build a bus gateway for integrating LS engines, and that might be a start.

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Originally posted by mw044 View Post
    Ok. Ended up with Gs6-53bz from e92 335i (which By the way bolts-on to m20 - gotta love BMW). Test fitting it to original trans tunnel made me realize how huge that thing is. Espesially with engine this far back - there's no way to fit it without opening up the trans tunnel a little bit:



    Maybe little less cutting could've been enough, but I wanted to make room for gs7d36sg which has mechatronics unit in the passanger side (read: I fucked up and cutted way too much :D). Still have to cut the drivers side to make room for ATC700 transfercase. It seems to fit without cutting the drivers seat / drivers right leg.

    Underside:



    Still have to make slight adjustments to alignment of the package. At the moment it's pointing too much to co-drivers side.
    Interesting... I didn't know the transmissions could be this cheap.
    I found a GS6-53BZ for a E60 545i/550i for $500.
    And an AWD one from a 335xi for $450
    And X5 T-cases from $250
    Put the V8 bellhousing on the AWD transmission and have what I need for my swap...
    I just have to adapt or build a controller of some kind for the front drive actuator.

    Considering that to do the TR6060 I'll need a $700 input shaft, a $800-1000 output shaft, $200 worth of mods to the rear housing, a $500 Lakewood bellhousing or a big PITA bellhousing adapter... vs. this combo I can just bolt together.

    I'm deliberately leaving out the cost of the clutch because with either driveline I'd end up with a Tilton 7.25" dual disk, so that cost is a wash between the two options.

    The reason I went down the TR6060 road in the first place is that the TR6060 works very well with 3.64 gears readily available for the E53 X5 in the US, while the BMW transmissions would work better with much taller ratios that never came to this country.

    The lame 0.87 top gear with the ZF, the low end torque of the S62 and the light weight of the E30 put together mean I want to run the tallest diff gears I can get my hands on. The tallest used in the E53 X5, from which I'll use the oil sump, is a 3.07 in the Euro market 3.0D manual transmission. The 3.07 uses the "tall ratio" case that has more room for a larger pinion gear. At the very least I need this case.

    Here's one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/131743147992
    It's a little pricey.

    The E46 diesel manual transmission cars came with gearing as high as 2.35. I could swap that into the "tall ratio" X5 case (with a Quaife!) but now I'm talking about a really expensive front diff, as well as getting a rear diff from Europe in addition to the two front diffs I've already mentioned. I'm also limited to the 188 diff with 2.35 gears, as the tallest 210 diff is 2.65, but there isn't a readily usable 2.65 front diff. The cost to finish each driveline is looking like a wash. The transmissions are only going to get cheaper.

    Were 550iX's or 550i X-drives ever built with manual transmissions? finding one of those would tip the balance toward the BMW driveline since I wouldn't have to mix/match transmission parts.

    I'm circling back to the BMW driveline because I've decided I'd rather put the TR6060 driveline behind an (turbo) LS in an E46 M3 with 330iX front suspension. It makes more sense to have a 1000 HP driveline behind a 1000 HP engine in a car that can mount 285+ tires at each corner than to have a 1000 HP driveline behind a 400 HP engine in a car that can mount 225 tires at all four corners.
    Last edited by The Dark Side of Will; 01-17-2017, 10:23 AM.

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  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    It's one of the critical components for my swap. The original input shaft for that T-case is 27 spline, and high power/high abuse rides can twist off the 27 spline transmission output.

    The 32 spline shaft is good for 1k HP.
    And since I need a custom length output shaft anyway, to mate the T-case and transmission with the thinnest possible adapter, then I might as well make it 32 spline throughout for the sake of bullet-proofing.

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  • flyboyx
    replied
    Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
    Hot dang! The 2017 32 spline input shaft group buy is live!

    http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105464




    Edit: For use in my Borg Warner T-case:
    what is the purpose of this?

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  • goarmy
    replied
    updates

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