Euro Ellips: Hella vs. Bosch

[AC Nico]

not everything is the same...

the bosch ones have a metal reflector and the hella have one made out of plastics.

[mikeedler]

yeah, and the bosch say bosch and the hella say hella. whatever, they are the same

[AC Nico]

the bosch's are better and i'm not the only one who say this :D

[panasoanic]

Cibie CSRs are the best 5.75" light around.

http://www.geocities.com/josephpatterson/Cibie_CSR_page_1.html

[nando]

I've heard so many people say that but I've only known ONE person who had them, and the car was almost never driven. plus they cost half of what some people's cars here are worth!

[panasoanic]

I've heard so many people say that but I've only known ONE person who had them, and the car was almost never driven. plus they cost half of what some people's cars here are worth!

I would love to find a $900 E30 in driving condition. :shock:

The lights are $109 a piece. Considering that a HID retrofit often is over $400, the CSRs are at a pretty decent price. All four would run you $436 plus shipping.

[bimmerphile]

For someone with a non-ellipsoid car that doesnt want to fork out the cash for ellips + HIDs, the CSR's are hands-down the way to go.

But, the CSR's are a dead-end option. If someone wanted to eventually upgrade to HIDs, then the CSR's wouldn't be the way to go as the reflector housing will not support an HID upgrade the same as a projector like ellips (since most HID kits use a D2S bulb, without the reflective coating on the end like a D2R bulb to avoid blinding other drivers when put in reflector-type headlights such as the CSR's).

[panasoanic]

But, the CSR's are a dead-end option. If someone wanted to eventually upgrade to HIDs, then the CSR's wouldn't be the way to go as the reflector housing will not support an HID upgrade the same as a projector like ellips (since most HID kits use a D2S bulb, without the reflective coating on the end like a D2R bulb to avoid blinding other drivers when put in reflector-type headlights such as the CSR's).

HID retrofits into a housing designed for a halogen bulb is just not a good idea. The optics used for a halogen projector and a HID projector lamp are vastly different. While the cutoff may be the same, the light distribution under the cut off point will be different.

Daniel Stern, a photometric engineer, writes in his FAQ "Can I convert my halogen headlamps to HID?" [link] :

Now, what about those "retrofits" in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't fall into the trap of trying to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff! In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun -- whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light (under thecutoff). And, as with all other automotive lamops (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, etc.

Stern continues,

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage. But just putting an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

Thus the only way for a correct retrofit in an E30 would be to use one of Hella's modular projectors that come in 90mm or 120mm and fabricating a mount for the 5.75" headlights. One such distributor is rallylights.com:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules.asp

You can see the price for these projectors are very expensive, totalling more than $500 apiece.

Compared to those prices and questionability of placing a HID bulb in a projector meant for a halogen bulb, Cibies are the best bet.

[bimmerphile]

Thanks for the info; I have discussed this very topic with Mr Stern on numerous occasions (are you Daniel in disguise? ;) ).

Granted, this mix-and-match sort of aftermarket modification is less than optimal, especially when you consider how many people would just stick an HID kit behind some sandblasted lenses creating a nice wall of glare to oncoming traffic. However having driven with both Cibié's (pronounced see-bee-ay for anyone wondering) and my current US ellips + HIDs, my hat goes off to the HIDs/ellipsoid combo.

On top of that, HIDs appeal to many, as im sure you know, not for the 3200 lumen output but for the cool blue color (myself notwithstanding), hence you see people buying these 6000K, 7200K, and even 8000K kits.

But we digress, topic for another line of conversation in another thread.

[nando]

I guess for me it's a costmetics thing. ellipse just look right on an E30, and the lighting difference between cibies and ellipsoids would probably not be enough to make me want to switch. (last place I saw it was $600 for a whole set, more than the cost of new factory ellipse)

besides, I drove fine for 2 years with sealed beams, and many cars I've driven had lights even worse than that.. :shock:

[reelizmpro]

I have Bosch ellipsoids off of a sport Evo M3 and they're probably the same performance-wise to the Hella. These Bosch lights have the hydraulic height adjustment for aiming (which is defeated when used on US cars unless you have the complete system). I'm not sure if Hella's came with this system or not.

[NickP]

I've seen the hydraulic height adjustment on both. I haven't seen a Bosch system without it although I'm sure they're out there.

[MR 325]

I have owned a set of each brand and did not notice the difference.