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  • StereoInstaller1
    GAS
    • Jul 2004
    • 22679

    #76
    In other words, Mike, a ported box will sound better if enough tech is applied. Bang out a box and slap it in? Go sealed...if your woofer is good for that. Most crap today is best suited for sealed. Remember, it is NOT your choice...if you actually design your box. The guy who designed the woofer made the enclosure decision long ago.
    Learn enough to properly design and build an enclosure that works with the cars accoustics...go ported, just like the pros. It will sound better AND hit harder.

    Just remember here...I have been building SQ systems since 1980. I think I just may have a bit more experience than the 8 dollar an hour tech support dorks at kicker!

    I sure as hell have built more cars than they (or you) have even seen, for that matter.

    So, lets see...2 industry pros say ported works best...one kid says sealed is best...hmmmm...the car stereo guy says learn more, kid.

    Go read Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Cookbook". Buy (and read) 10 issues of Speakerbuilder. Get anything by Dick Olsen, even the aincient Radio Shack book I first read 30 years ago. If you quote Kicker again, I am gonna continue laughing. Try to get into some real shit, man. Quit reading marketing department propaganda!.

    Remember, ported boxes are HARD to make sound good, so most companies are reluctant to ask you to do so, since most boneheads will fuck it up! Shitty ported boxes blow up woofers, so the manufacturer has to warranty them...more cost...worse reputation...even JL is tough to get real tech help from anymore.

    Cars are far more predictable than any room, any time. Talk about a fixed environment...what living room, or even sound studio can boast that it has the listener at the same spot every time they listen?

    We havent even talked about what a sealed box does to impedance, have we? Wanna know some neat shit? Find out what happens to amplifier power when your supposedly 4 ohm driver hits 40 ohms when it is near the resonant frequency of the box/car....think your amp just might have a hard time making its rated power when it sees a 40 ohm load? Worse yet, that shit happens right where you need the most power, between 30 and 70 Hz. Try and build a Zobel network to flatten that impedance curve....heh...lemme know when you find out just what a Zobel network is, would you?

    Luke

    Closing SOON!
    "LAST CHANCE FOR G.A.S." DEAL IS ON NOW

    Luke AT germanaudiospecialties DOT com or text 425-761-6450, or for quickest answers, call me at the shop 360-669-0398

    Thanks for 10 years of fun!

    Comment

    • mikeinsanmarcos
      Member
      • Feb 2004
      • 44

      #77
      lol, ok dude.. Calm down.. You are starting to make assumptions about me, so I am going to make a couple of assumptions about you..

      1. I think you dont know what the hell you are talking about.
      2. Based on your grammar, I would be willing to bet you have a very low level of education.
      3. I think you are a self proclaimed "pro" without any real training (other than reading, not understanding, a few loudspeaker books).
      4.) You dont know what an RTA is so you probably have never been involved with IASCA or any other accredited auto sound orginization.
      5.) You come in here and throw out some technical terms (that you dont know shit about) and hope that everyone will bow down..

      FYI, A zobel network HAS NOTHING TO F'ING DO WITH MAKING THE AMP WORK LESS.. It is a simple parallel RC filter that helps a PASSIVE crossover maintain its high frequency functions (IE, the inductance of a sub will actually keep a PASSIVE crossover from functioning properly in the higher frequencys, a zobel network will help to stop this effect) Now, how many people here are passively crossing over their subs? PROBABLY NONE so wtf does a zobel network have to do with any of these guys?


      I didnt jump into this to argue with you... As I said before, I am trying to help this guy by telling him things that ACTUALLY will help him out with his problem..

      Comment

      • mikeinsanmarcos
        Member
        • Feb 2004
        • 44

        #78
        Originally posted by jimi318is
        Not to bust anyones balls, I just thought I'd plot my sub in it's recommended ported enclosure- green line (and for shits and grins I plotted it in a sealed one too- red line, but you can ignore that one)
        But I would say its pretty damn accurate and flat up unlit roll off starting at about 35Hz, and did I mention it's ported.
        Compare that to the kicker that was plotted earlier (sealed), roll off starts at about 65Hz with a 1dB gain at 70Hz......... :?
        These curves do not reflect real world response once you get the box in the car, Transfer fuction will destroy your flat response that is being shown on the graph.. The should be used as a reference but you still have to assume the transfer function of the car will give you a significant boost in your low frequencys. Why dont you do this.. Go grab your RTA and plot out your in car system response and post it up with that sub in that enclosure.. I will dig out the response I got when I won the SQ catagory in an IASCA competition back in 93' using three boston acoustic 10.4's in a sealed box in the back of a civic. It was FLAT, sounded great and I didnt use ANY eq...

        Comment

        • Jordan
          R3V OG
          • Oct 2003
          • 12907

          #79
          Originally posted by mikeinsanmarcos
          lol, ok dude.. Calm down.. You are starting to make assumptions about me, so I am going to make a couple of assumptions about you..

          1. I think you dont know what the hell you are talking about.
          2. Based on your grammar, I would be willing to bet you have a very low level of education.
          3. I think you are a self proclaimed "pro" without any real training (other than reading, not understanding, a few loudspeaker books).
          4.) You dont know what an RTA is so you probably have never been involved with IASCA or any other accredited auto sound orginization.
          5.) You come in here and throw out some technical terms (that you dont know shit about) and hope that everyone will bow down..

          FYI, A zobel network HAS NOTHING TO F'ING DO WITH MAKING THE AMP WORK LESS.. It is a simple parallel RC filter that helps a PASSIVE crossover maintain its high frequency functions (IE, the inductance of a sub will actually keep a PASSIVE crossover from functioning properly in the higher frequencys, a zobel network will help to stop this effect) Now, how many people here are passively crossing over their subs? PROBABLY NONE so wtf does a zobel network have to do with any of these guys?


          I didnt jump into this to argue with you... As I said before, I am trying to help this guy by telling him things that ACTUALLY will help him out with his problem..
          Hey Luke, let me know if you want this guy banned.
          Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

          Vapor Honing & E30 ABS Pump Refurbishment Service
          https://mtechniqueabs.com/

          Comment

          • Digitalwave
            is a poseur
            • Oct 2003
            • 6280

            #80
            Banned for what? I like hearing what this guy has to say. Can there only be one opinion on this subject?

            RISING EDGE

            Let's drive fast and have fun.

            Comment

            • mikeinsanmarcos
              Member
              • Feb 2004
              • 44

              #81
              Ban me for knowing what I am talking about and trying to help? Your boy luke is blowing smoke up everyones ass.. I can tell I am not wanted here so I will leave on my own..

              Enjoy your ignorance... :roll:

              Comment

              • Jordan
                R3V OG
                • Oct 2003
                • 12907

                #82
                Luke knows what he is talking about. You are basicly jumping out and calling him a liar. I don't need your kind here.
                Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

                Vapor Honing & E30 ABS Pump Refurbishment Service
                https://mtechniqueabs.com/

                Comment

                • BMW BMXER
                  R3VLimited
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 2325

                  #83
                  Originally posted by Digitalwave
                  Banned for what? I like hearing what this guy has to say. Can there only be one opinion on this subject?
                  Well apperently there is only going to be one now.

                  Bummer.

                  Sold it.

                  Comment

                  • jimi318is
                    Advanced Member
                    • May 2004
                    • 152

                    #84
                    Originally posted by mikeinsanmarcos
                    These curves do not reflect real world response once you get the box in the car, ...
                    I figured sense this was the way you were showing how to get a better response out of that kicker .....................
                    A cars (or any rooms) acoustics will change what you hear, but that is not how to properly design an enclosure, and that doesn't change how that driver is interacting with the enclosure. If you build an enclosure to make up for poor acoustics, you run a high risk of blowing that driver from playing it in an airspace it was not designed to play in. We could go on and on saying the same thing over and over, but basically you are the first person I have ever heard say: "to make up for bad acoustics, change the enclosure design for your driver". But, if you have come across some "loop hole" in driver suspension/ enclosure design, that engineers have yet to discover, well congrats. But like I said, I didn't plot that to bust anyone's balls, I just thought the info was........... interesting.
                    And I would love to plot my in car acoustics, but the set up I use is not "stand alone", it is designed for pro audio and has to work with the interface of a PA sound system.

                    Comment

                    • jimi318is
                      Advanced Member
                      • May 2004
                      • 152

                      #85
                      I have no problem with him staying around, just because we don't agree on this one subject doesn't mean he can't shed some light on other subjects.

                      Comment

                      • OLLIE
                        Noobie
                        • Sep 2004
                        • 2

                        #86
                        sorry for opening up this can of worms again this is my first post here !!! :twisted: hello

                        i have begun preparing for a similar setup, i have a couple of questions
                        1. do you have no rear fill? ie. no shelf speakers, just front components and the sub?
                        2. does the sub have to be in the centre of the box? (can i save more boot space down one side of the box?)

                        Comment

                        • Jordan
                          R3V OG
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 12907

                          #87
                          Originally posted by OLLIE
                          do you have no rear fill? ie. no shelf speakers, just front components and the sub?
                          Only front components and the sub right now.

                          Originally posted by OLLIE
                          does the sub have to be in the centre of the box? (can i save more boot space down one side of the box?)
                          The box will be the same size.. I see no extra space gained by putting the sub on one side or the other.
                          Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

                          Vapor Honing & E30 ABS Pump Refurbishment Service
                          https://mtechniqueabs.com/

                          Comment

                          • parkerbink
                            R3V OG
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 10134

                            #88
                            Originally posted by mikeinsanmarcos
                            1. I think you dont know what the hell you are talking about.
                            2. Based on your grammar, I would be willing to bet you have a very low level of education.
                            3. I think you are a self proclaimed "pro" without any real training (other than reading, not understanding, a few loudspeaker books).
                            4.) You dont know what an RTA is so you probably have never been involved with IASCA or any other accredited auto sound orginization.
                            5.) You come in here and throw out some technical terms (that you dont know shit about) and hope that everyone will bow down..
                            I think it is unnecessary when people, any people, mod or not gets personal and flames. I see nothing in Lukes post that is a personal affront to Mike, so I wonder why it is accaptable for Mike to get into Luke's education, stereo knowledge, etc.

                            Just my 2cents, I am ready for my flames now.....

                            [IMG]https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/my350z.com-vbulletin/550x225/80-parkerbsig_5096690e71d912ec1addc4a84e99c374685fc03 8.jpg[/IMG

                            Comment

                            • kylebes1
                              R3VLimited
                              • May 2004
                              • 2804

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Jordan
                              Originally posted by OLLIE
                              do you have no rear fill? ie. no shelf speakers, just front components and the sub?
                              Only front components and the sub right now.
                              does tha balance sound good? or does a four channel headunit make a differece?

                              Comment

                              • Jordan
                                R3V OG
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 12907

                                #90
                                Originally posted by kylebes1
                                Originally posted by Jordan
                                Originally posted by OLLIE
                                do you have no rear fill? ie. no shelf speakers, just front components and the sub?
                                Only front components and the sub right now.
                                does tha balance sound good? or does a four channel headunit make a differece?
                                Of course it sounds good. I'm not sitting in the backseat....
                                My headunit is 4-ch, and does not power any speakers.
                                That is what my external amps are for.
                                Rearfill is more for rear seat passengers.
                                Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

                                Vapor Honing & E30 ABS Pump Refurbishment Service
                                https://mtechniqueabs.com/

                                Comment

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