Anyone consider a AEM EMS-4?

[sumoashe]

Has anyone considered using aem's ems-4 engine management system on a M20? Just got done helping a guy out installing one in his locost build and have to say I kinda dig it. Here's a quick rundown of feature's for those unfamiliar with it:

KEY FEATURES
4 Saturated Injector Drivers
4 Coil Triggers
8 General Purpose Inputs/Outputs
Mag or Hall Cam and Crank Inputs
O2 Input
Knock Input
8 MB Internal Data Logger
VSS Hall Input
Can Data Stream
USB Comm Port
Compact (4.8" x 4.55" x 1.44"), weather/shock proof enclosure
Utilizes AEMTuner Interface Software
System is fully enabled and unlocked – Never pay for Upgrades
Context Sensitive Help Eases Tuning Process
Maps can be Password Protected by the Tuner to Prevent Unauthorized Usage Sharing
Data analysis using AEMdata software

It'll handle running a M20 in semi-seq. with wasted spark right out of the box. So no need to add additional drivers for that stuff. All for less then the pnp megasquirt. I sat for bout an hour watching the guy go threw set up and base tuning, and was quit impressed with it. Very user friendly software. So let's hear what you guys think.

[nando]

how much?

sounds a little basic/feature limited but it has to be better than some of the other options people are still working with.

can you choose how to measure engine load? (MAF/MAP etc)

[IronFreak]

I need to check this out, I am tossing around ideas for a turbo m52, besides figuring out the vanos (may have to go non) I want something that user friendly and reliable.

[Northern]

Price?

[IronFreak]

he said it was cheaper the mspnp....but I was seeing pricing in the $800+ range. Don't think that's cheaper, about the same unless you do a diy kit.

[nando]

$800+ buys you MS3 pro which is way beyond an AEM-4.

[IronFreak]

^^^Thats what I'm saying.

Maybe it was used.

[sumoashe]

sounds a little basic/feature limited but it has to be better than some of the other options people are still working with.

can you choose how to measure engine load? (MAF/MAP etc)

You can choose load measurement. MAF/MAP/Blended MAP/BARO. What features are you curious about? Any of the 8 general input/outputs will handle boost control, relay control, fan, nitrous, ect..

I need to check this out, I am tossing around ideas for a turbo m52, besides figuring out the vanos (may have to go non) I want something that user friendly and reliable.

For a turbo m52 you'll want to look elsewhere. Mainly cause you'll want full-seq fuel and spark.

he said it was cheaper the mspnp....but I was seeing pricing in the $800+ range. Don't think that's cheaper, about the same unless you do a diy kit.

The one's going for 800+ are the one's also coming with the harness, either the mini harness or the full harness. I say it's cheaper cause you're not having to crack the thing open and buy mod kits to get the same number of injector or spark outputs. I've never liked the fact that the customer has to crack open their megasquirt to install stuff that should of come with in the first place. Let alone all the jumper crap, or the multiple connectors to handle features that the one main connector can handle. To me the time spent doing that equals money.

$800+ buys you MS3 pro which is way beyond an AEM-4.

Correct, but do want to pay $1050 for something that you'll only use half the feature's. Or $1200 for the version with the harness. When you can spend a little over $800 and get something that will do everything you want and come's with a harness. Gotta admit the MS3-Pro is nice, but way overkill for an m20. And paying for stuff you won't use is kinda a waste of money.

I like megasquirt, and think it's a viable option for most people. But it's also lacking a little, honestly would push more for the Vems route, if it was more supported here in the US. The ems-4 seems like a good middle ground between ms and a motorsports grade ecu like a motec. It's got all the features you would need in a more upscale professional package.

[nando]

lacking in what? it has twice the abilities of that AEM for a similar price.

the MS3-pro isn't a hand-built kit either - you buy it and plug it in. you don't mod it. you don't really mod a standard MS3 kit either.

actually, the standard MS3 kit, fully assembled, is only about $500.

[sumoashe]

I wasn't saying the Ms3-Pro was lacking, just the standard ms stuff. The Ms3-Pro is their first step towards a professional ecu. And is a very viable option to someone looking for a professional level ecu on a budget. Frankly all the other ms stuff to me is nothing more than a "build your own radio" kit. It's great for someone who's interested in learning how to build something or likes tinkering with that sorta stuff. But would you run it in you pro-level race car? I think not. Their getting closer and closer every year, which is great tho.

Don't forget that when your paying for a ecu, your also paying for the tuning software. And when it comes to that aspect ms is still lacking compared to pretty much everyone. Ms relies on general people to add to and create software. Which is great. While AEM has people that are payed and educated to be software engineers, and nothing more. It's grassroots vs pro's. The ems-4 simply gives you an entry point into pro level software in a pro level build quality unit at an affordable price. It's has what you need and nothing you don't. And to me the software is the real benefit, because it's the same software used in their infinity units. Which is used in pro level motorsports. If any of you watched the global rally cross, the spec cars all run aem ecu's with the same software used in the ems-4. As well as the stephenson racing camaro in the conti tires world challange series. Knowing that their stuff is used in some of the highest levels of motorsports is a big plus. Because now your not drawing from a bunch of guys doing this for a hobby, but people doing it for a profession.

It's just another option out there for people.

[nando]

You should make up your mind.

it's too advanced for an M20 but you wouldn't run it in a pro-race car? huh?

I've used a few different EMS. Actually, OEM is generally best - but I'm usually left pretty disappointed when trying some $2500 computer that is 3x harder to tune and has half as many abilities as a "build your own radio" kit as you'd put it.

anyway, my only real point is, if you're at the same price level as MS3, you'd better at least be able to match it. otherwise, you're just paying for a name.

[sumoashe]

Nando, you seem to be under the impression I'm bashing ms. Which I'm not. It's a great product. And no, the ems-4 does not compare to the Ms3-Pro. But it's not meant to. The Ms3-Pro is meant to compare to a motec, haltech, vipec, or aem infinity. To do a better comparison your looking at the ems-4 and the pnp ms, both of which run $800 retail. Even the standard ms3 doesn't compare. As the base unit only comes with 1 spark output and 2 fuel outputs. The ms3x is a slightly better comparison. Except for the case, connectors, and build quality.

it's too advanced for an M20 but you wouldn't run it in a pro-race car? huh?

I didn't say it was to advanced, cause it's not. I said it was overkill. As in your leaving multiple functions on the table that you can't use. Not without a cam sensor setup. So your spending extra money for stuff you can't use. With in the context of a m20.

Comparing ms3, the ems-4 gives you all the stuff you'll need, ready to go out of the box. No modding, no jumpers, no buying extra stuff to get it to work at the level of the ems-4. Comparing the pnp it's not even close. Why would I buy it knowing I'm going to have to take it apart, mod it, and possibly junk it in the process. Just to get to the level of the ems.

But all things being equal, the software is where the advantage goes to the ems-4. If you want to check it out it's a free download from the site. Download it and play with it.

The fact that aem's stuff is used in pro level motorsports and ms is not speaks for itself. I am unaware of any pro team using any ms product, including the Pro model. If it was as great as you think it would be on a whole bunch of cars due to the price, but it's not.

It comes down to whether you want a diy quality product, or a pro quality product. Either is a good choice, but their for dif markets.

[Matt Cramer]

Comparing ms3, the ems-4 gives you all the stuff you'll need, ready to go out of the box. No modding, no jumpers, no buying extra stuff to get it to work at the level of the ems-4. Comparing the pnp it's not even close. Why would I buy it knowing I'm going to have to take it apart, mod it, and possibly junk it in the process. Just to get to the level of the ems.

The MSPNP isn't something you are supposed to take apart and mod; it's intended to be complete, plug and play. At worst, you might have to use an internal knob to adjust the crankshaft position sensor sensitivity. Perhaps you're thinking of the DIYPNP?

The fact that aem's stuff is used in pro level motorsports and ms is not speaks for itself. I am unaware of any pro team using any ms product, including the Pro model. If it was as great as you think it would be on a whole bunch of cars due to the price, but it's not.

Most of the really high level pro teams out there are running Bosch Motorsports or McLaren TAG ECUs - they're often mandated by the rulebook. AEM has a bigger sponsorship budget, and seems to be targeting different motorsports and events. Some of the higher end cars that have been running MegaSquirt:

[nando]

Don't forget that when your paying for a ecu, your also paying for the tuning software. And when it comes to that aspect ms is still lacking compared to pretty much everyone.

also - with this quote, I don't think you've used the MS tuning software in at least 5 years if you think it's lacking. if anything, it's better than pretty much everything but the very high end stuff used by motorsports teams ($20k+ ecus).

oh yeah, can you tune AEM on your smartphone? ;)