is 300 WHP (N/A)reachable with 10.5 compression?

[DrMcDave]

"hmm if i paid 10k for a hand grenade, i'd be pissed when it blew up"
I'd be pissed if it didn't!

looking back i typed hand- son of a bitch

nando - final plans are in or not yet?

I am getting in on the ppf billet rocker group buy, so thats the first step to my build.

[nando]

looking back i typed hand- son of a bitch

nando - final plans are in or not yet?

I am getting in on the ppf billet rocker group buy, so thats the first step to my build.

well I'm going with an e crank (actually picking up an entire bottom end with less than 100k) and E36m3 rods, but I haven't decided on pistons yet. I'll probably shoot for 10:1 compression (hopefully 92 octane will be enough). I need to get started very soon though as there aren't many good machinists around here and they are always busy, and I want to have it done by the end of june. It should be a pretty basic build, I dont think it will be neccesary to do much to the crank or rods, just basically have it bored out and put together.

I saw those rockers but I don't think I'll need anything that wild. I wonder if having a stock set x-rayed and shot peened would be cheaper and just as strong?

[Stu]

The aluminum rockers are good for 8500, stock rockers are what hold up high-rev M20's

[DrMcDave]

well I'm going with an e crank (actually picking up an entire bottom end with less than 100k) and E36m3 rods, but I haven't decided on pistons yet. I'll probably shoot for 10:1 compression (hopefully 92 octane will be enough). I need to get started very soon though as there aren't many good machinists around here and they are always busy, and I want to have it done by the end of june. It should be a pretty basic build, I dont think it will be neccesary to do much to the crank or rods, just basically have it bored out and put together.

I saw those rockers but I don't think I'll need anything that wild. I wonder if having a stock set x-rayed and shot peened would be cheaper and just as strong?

have you considered metric mechanic pistons, they are expensive but seem to be worthwhile. Atleast if they are as good as jim at MM claims. After seeing jordans results its hard to argue w/ 2.8's.

[Ball325]

my engine builder said it is possible under these circumstances.

This is a very reputable engine builder he made a 325 crank hp 2.0L S14. (it was sleeved down)

He said if you stroke it to 3.0L bore it out as much as you can and try to get about 3.2L and then run Individual throttle bodies that are bored out of course. and then port the head and run oversized valves and a custom grind cam. also need Light weight rods and atleast 12:1 and then run probably Motec so you can adjust everything or electromotive. he said after that you might make it. he said thats probably about a $15,000motor. and it wont last very long with a belt drive and that compression he said that it will rev to about 8500rpm plus. Also he said teh crank would need to be heavily modified. he said a key to making that power will be lightweight internal parts.

There are probably a few things i missed but thats the general set up. So with 10.5:1 no its not. Unless you can cast a custom 24valve head. which is possible if you have a foundry and a very experienced machinist. I should try this since i can cast aluminum but it would be cooled very effectively.

[der affe]

well I'm going with an e crank (actually picking up an entire bottom end with less than 100k) and E36m3 rods, but I haven't decided on pistons yet. I'll probably shoot for 10:1 compression (hopefully 92 octane will be enough). I need to get started very soon though as there aren't many good machinists around here and they are always busy, and I want to have it done by the end of june. It should be a pretty basic build, I dont think it will be neccesary to do much to the crank or rods, just basically have it bored out and put together.

I saw those rockers but I don't think I'll need anything that wild. I wonder if having a stock set x-rayed and shot peened would be cheaper and just as strong?

did you give up on the m52 crank (84mm stroke)?

[Ray Smoodiver]

There is a 2.7 in NZ making 250crank hp, with motec, ind throttle bodies + trumpets, c/f airbox and 11:1 compression on 98ron fuel.

[nando]

did you give up on the m52 crank (84mm stroke)?

I found a low mileage e block and crank cheap, and I'm not willing to buy a crank sight unseen. I don't think I'll be losing anything significant.

also, BMW already made a 24 valve head for the M20- it's called the M50. ;)

[der affe]

torque and displacement? were you going to go 85 or 86 bore?

[nando]

I'm going more for revs than big displacement, I don't think I'll have anything to complain about with the 81mm crank and all the lightweight components. getting 200ft-lb+ will be pretty easy, everything above that is just icing.

I'm not sure about the bore yet, I have to call MM and IE this week and discuss pistons to figure that out. I'm leaning towards the 85mm bore, I didn't think that the 86mm was safe but MM seems to think otherwise. I will be ordering pistons next week hopefully, and whatever other small details I don't have yet. My room is going to be stuffed full of parts for the next two months! :(

[madjurgen]

Im also worried about going to 86mm. Already picked up a s50 crank along with rods. Im also just going to shotpeen my rockers. Still havent decided on what pistons to get. Like the fact that MMs have valve reliefs but I still question that company for some reason so leaning towards JE. Are you going to stick with your 284/276 cam? Do you not feel comfortable putting it together yourself? Are you going to knife-edge your crank? Whatre you doing about engine management? Going to keep the afm or go maf?

[DrMcDave]

I'm going more for revs than big displacement, I don't think I'll have anything to complain about with the 81mm crank and all the lightweight components. getting 200ft-lb+ will be pretty easy, everything above that is just icing.

I'm not sure about the bore yet, I have to call MM and IE this week and discuss pistons to figure that out. I'm leaning towards the 85mm bore, I didn't think that the 86mm was safe but MM seems to think otherwise. I will be ordering pistons next week hopefully, and whatever other small details I don't have yet. My room is going to be stuffed full of parts for the next two months! :(

def. post up what you find out. I really like the MM piston design, but they don't seem to offer all the lightweight rods and stuff on their site for anything other than the 3.2. i don't want the 3.2 but a 2.8 or 2.9 w/ super lightweight rods would be appealing.

[nando]

sticking with my current cam, I think it will be enough (certainly screams with the stock bottom end!). If you are getting custom pistons you should be able to get valve reliefs from anyone, including JE. I also like the better squish area of the JE pistons (the MM don't seem to have much), looking at what Jordan got anyway.. plus they are $200 cheaper.

knife edging etc. is probably way overkill, this is a street car, not a race car. :p I might get a crank scraper though if I can have one made for the ix oil pan. :)

I don't know if I will put it together or not, been reading a bit and I really don't think it will be that hard. It depends on how busy my machinist is I guess (and how much time I have). Engine management will remain stock for now, and stock AFM. MAYBE I'll add an M30 AFM, but with dyno time (which I'll need anyway). For now I'm just getting an AFPR and will use the stock chip to break it in. I'm thinking of the SMT-7 & maf next year, but I have to limit how much I spend on my car in one year. ;)

I just want the darn thing to run! (and not break)

I am wondering about the 86mm bore though. anyone have real experience with that? I've heard anecdotes of severe cooling issues etc., but you know how that is..

[DrMcDave]

i've been reading up on VEMS and its a very powerful system. Take a look at it. It can control spark, fuel and has a build in wide band function out of the box. No add ons needed.

[nando]

def. post up what you find out. I really like the MM piston design, but they don't seem to offer all the lightweight rods and stuff on their site for anything other than the 3.2. i don't want the 3.2 but a 2.8 or 2.9 w/ super lightweight rods would be appealing.

S50 rods are cheap enough, and lighter/stronger than M20 rods.. they are the same length as i rods (135mm). I don't know why more people don't use them for strokers.