Miller mass air

[e30trooper]

[digger]

As for what I need? how do you know what I need? what I want is an airbox other than the stock one that doesn't suck hot air from the engine bay, that I can buy and bolt to my car. it doesn't exist.. except the PSIK is sooo close. But I don't need a stupid MAF. why not sell people what they want? How is that discrediting it?

If they would sell me the tube, elbow brackets etc for a sensible price (i.e. not the same price as a full kit as i also dont need a MAF or software) then i would buy it and actually test it out on the dyno independantly. I find it strange that they can't just not mount the MAF and quote a reduced price......

[digger]

In my opinion some of the gains would not be purely be due to reduced restriction which is an over simplification of how an intake system works. I have suspicion that the engine likes the longer tube length and diamter that the PSIK provides because of the change in intake pressure waves that it creates. It may also be due to the lack of an airbox so to speak which produces positive results.

[digger]

It doesn't work that wy though! You can't run a MAF without the tune this product is a MAF SYSTEM. The product IS a MAF integrated into an intake tube. The product is not a tube, it's not a filter. It's a whole system that comes with a tune otherwise it wouldn't work period.

Get it?

Brody, i am not doubting that the PSIK is a step up from Stock and nobody here seems to be but please shows us what difference between the GENIII MAF and PSIK on the same car.

Here is the stock vs GENIII

http://www.millerperformancecars.com...III%202.5L.pdf

here is the stock vs PSIK

http://millerperformancecars.com/fil...0vs%20PSIK.pdf

but where is GENIII vs PSIK (with no supporting mods)? this is needed to justify gains going to the PSIK over the regular GENIII MAF. If you were trying to sell someone on the PSIK over the normal MAF what evidence would you use to justify the extra $334?

the two cars in above links are different so a delta wont work otherwise the biggest gain seems to be lowend which is counter intuitive. Not to mention that the second link seems to be an unhealthy stock car as undicated by peak hp at 5300rpm.

[nando]

Also, look at the vacuum recorded on the graph. 100% repeatable every time the only time the vacuum goes away is when you open up the intake. Vacuum is a sign of a restriction. Pressure on a sucking "motion" is not possible. Blowing = pressure, sucking (na) = vacuum if the flow is not free enough.

We were shocked at the findings and that was documented in the WAR machine thread. When it turned out the product worked we went with it.

What is it that you so desperately need proven? You don't even have a need for the PSIK, you jut want bits and pieces which we won't sell so why do you feel te need to discredit properly documented and repeatable results?!

There is pressure - atmospheric pressure. when you go full throttle, if there are no restrictions, you should see full atmospheric pressure inside the manifold (101.2kpa at sea level, right?). with NOTHING in front of the stock 60mm throttlebody, I wasn't seeing any pressure drop across the intake (datalogging vaccum, or more appropriately, manifold pressure in KPA) until 6500 rpm, and with the stock airbox, no pressure drop until 6000rpm.

Yes, there's pressure in an N/A engine. Vaccum is just pressure that's less than atmospheric. we don't drive in outter space..

You show me ONE N/A, bolt-ons (cam included) M20B25 making 200whp and I'll eat my hat. I never discredited your products. its your implausable claims of huge power gains, adding one thing to the next. sure, you could get 200whp from a 2.5 M20 - if you turned it to 8000rpm!

FWIW I think it's entirely plausable that you could gain 20hp from all the PSIK stuff put together, but that's still a long, long way from 200whp. diminishing returns, my friend.

As for what I need? how do you know what I need? what I want is an airbox other than the stock one that doesn't suck hot air from the engine bay, that I can buy and bolt to my car. it doesn't exist.. except the PSIK is sooo close. But I don't need a stupid MAF. why not sell people what they want? How is that discrediting it?

[e30trooper]

I'm sorry that our employees don't want to starve and go homeless trying todevelop products and producing them without a paycheck.

true , but was i right about the tube? I mean it dosnt cost much to produce a 3" tube with two 90* bends with a maf adapter. Theres plenty of none bmw CAI like that. Im not ragging im just asking/saying and I like to butt in on convos

[brody]

basicly , with tha $400 alum. "CAI" tube , with the maf being mounted lower , thus develops more tq and mid range gains. I understand the logic but not the price...

I'm sorry that our employees don't want to starve and go homeless trying todevelop products and producing them without a paycheck.

[e30trooper]

basicly , with tha $400 alum. "CAI" tube , with the maf being mounted lower , thus develops more tq and mid range gains. I understand the logic but not the price...

[brody]

Also, look at the vacuum recorded on the graph. 100% repeatable every time the only time the vacuum goes away is when you open up the intake. Vacuum is a sign of a restriction. Pressure on a sucking "motion" is not possible. Blowing = pressure, sucking (na) = vacuum if the flow is not free enough.

We were shocked at the findings and that was documented in the WAR machine thread. When it turned out the product worked we went with it.

What is it that you so desperately need proven? You don't even have a need for the PSIK, you jut want bits and pieces which we won't sell so why do you feel te need to discredit properly documented and repeatable results?!

[brody]

you gained 20WHP with a *tune* not a 3" tube slapped in front of a 60mm throttle body. that's why people are interested to see just what the tube itself does. get it?

It doesn't work that wy though! You can't run a MAF without the tune this product is a MAF SYSTEM. The product IS a MAF integrated into an intake tube. The product is not a tube, it's not a filter. It's a whole system that comes with a tune otherwise it wouldn't work period.

Get it?

[e30trooper]

More more more!

[nando]

Thanks!



Thanks for the intelligent response. So there is no confusion, here is a BONE stock M20 and that same car with the PSIK installed and absolutely nothing else.

http://millerperformancecars.com/fil...0vs%20PSIK.pdf

As you can see, same day WITH weather correction, same car 20 WHP gained from JUST the PSIK product. We can repeat this car after car all day long no matter how much people don't want us to.

you gained 20WHP with a *tune* not a 3" tube slapped in front of a 60mm throttle body. that's why people are interested to see just what the tube itself does. get it?

[nando]

nobody is bashing him. the idea that you can do 200whp with basically bolt ons (other than a head) is pretty rediculous. you can't add HP #s together like that. it's asinine.

as far as the 3" intake - digger has a point. what is the gain from just the 3" intake? I can tell you this - on my engine, with a bone stock airbox, I'm not seeing *any* pressure drop until 6000rpm. That's with no AFM or MAF of any kind - just a 3" tube with a temp sensor.. the stock airbox is only really restrictive at around 220bhp and above 6000rpm. Without knowing what the performance difference of the intake tube you're just pissing money into the wind.

Heck, I tested with no intake at all, just an open throttle - not even the boot. with no possible restrictions at all, I still get a pressure drop at 6500 because the throttle body is too small. you can't fix that by making the tube in front of the throttle body larger! that's just stupid.

Below 6000rpm, the stock airbox makes basically the same power as a huge cone filter and 3" open tube. you aren't going to get 18whp just from a 3" intake tube on a stock motor, with a stock throttle body and intake manifold. Actually, I made about 5ft/lbs more torque with the stock airbox than I did with the unrestricted intake, and more power below about 5500rpm.

I also don't get not wanting to sell just the tube.. I'd definitely be interested in one, because the stock airbox does become a restriction for me, but I don't have the time to build a proper shield for my much less restrictive 3" intake and gigantic K&N filter. I'm never going to buy a MAF because it would be 3 steps backwards. it's like I'm waiving hundred dollar bills in their face but they don't need me because I don't have a stock ECU?

and what about all the people with broken setups that can't get ahold of these guys?

[brody]

Good luck with that

Thanks!

Wow. Why is everyone bashing Brody?
There are not alot of companies developing kits for e30s guys, the gains claimed are impressive and I for one am optimistic about them, but i balance that with healthy skepticism. I do agree that the miller dynos are nebulous, you can't tell what gains came from where, but I don't think it's on purpose or to be deceptive. I think it's great that we have a R&Ded intake option.

Thanks for the intelligent response. So there is no confusion, here is a BONE stock M20 and that same car with the PSIK installed and absolutely nothing else.

http://millerperformancecars.com/fil...0vs%20PSIK.pdf

As you can see, same day WITH weather correction, same car 20 WHP gained from JUST the PSIK product. We can repeat this car after car all day long no matter how much people don't want us to.

[bastianshaw]

Wow. Why is everyone bashing Brody?
There are not alot of companies developing kits for e30s guys, the gains claimed are impressive and I for one am optimistic about them, but i balance that with healthy skepticism. I do agree that the miller dynos are nebulous, you can't tell what gains came from where, but I don't think it's on purpose or to be deceptive. I think it's great that we have a R&Ded intake option.