simple hidden m20 perfomance?

[mikeb23ft]

I just want to get the most power from the engine without opening it up.

[digger]

The point is that you can chip your car for a whole lot less and get similar gains. The Miller/MAF setup might be worth something if you were going to do the tuning yourself. But if you're not going to then just get a pre-baked TMS chip and call it done for 1/3 the price.

show me proof that the TMS chip provides any gains....

[mikeb23ft]

Injectors, electric fan, and 4.10 would be solid upgrades. I cant do internal engine work myself. Cat is as good as gone, nobody cares in sc. Also interested by the ability to change tunes on the fly.

[smooth]

I just want to get the most power from the engine without opening it up.

You can get a chip for 1/3 the price that will give you noticeable gains. This Miller chip isn't any better unless you want to go for the WAR chip and then you'd have the ability to reprogram the chip. But it doesn't sound like that would be interesting or even necessary for you (since you don't want to add a turbo for example).

The other portion of the price is the MAF. There are less expensive ways to get a MAF on an M20. The main problem is that I doubt there's much point in doing anything on the intake end of things without work on the exhaust end of things. So far, from what I've read over the years, there's either minimal restriction from the factory or it's so much work to open up what can be opened that it's not worth it to just do something like a standard port and polish like us old guys used to do with our muscle cars decades ago.

That 25 hp claim is optimistic, at best. Whatever you do get can be closely achieved from a chip by an established tuner.

show me proof that the TMS chip provides any gains....

what?

Also interested by the ability to change tunes on the fly.

Well in that case, the WAR chip might be something you're interested in after all. But if you really want to go wild there is a guy who makes plug and play megasquirts for the 1.3 motronic (means he puts one in the box your chip is in and you plug it in and do the rest).

[mikeb23ft]

I believe diggers point is that tms doesn't provide dyno graphs for their chips.

[smooth]

I believe diggers point is that tms doesn't provide dyno graphs for their chips.

you can't dyno a chip anyway

you have to dyno a whole car

[devon.818]

bolt ons can be fun.

go with a MarkD chip for 19lb injectors, a kamotors intake, free flow exhaust with minimal(not none) back pressure, and a 4.10 will make it feel fun.
little weight reduction and you're gtg

[mikeb23ft]

you can't dyno a chip anyway

you have to dyno a whole car

Hahaa you know what I meant.

Miller provides dyno sheets of cars with their products, before and after installation.

[smooth]

Hahaa you know what I meant.

Miller provides dyno sheets of cars with their products, before and after installation.

Yes, but it's irrelevant because your car is not the car that was used on the dyno so the graph is irrelevant other than to say that it provided that car, with that engine, with that intake/exhaust/drivetrain extra power.

[mikeb23ft]

Yes, but it's irrelevant because your car is not the car that was used on the dyno so the graph is irrelevant other than to say that it provided that car, with that engine, with that intake/exhaust/drivetrain extra power.

This is my beef with dyno comparisons. Its not my exact car. That doesn't really mean its irrelevant though. There are more similarities than differences between two m20 cars that are mostly stock and the results should be roughly transferable.

[smooth]

On what basis do you conclude there are more similarities between the car in the dyno charts and yours? The fact that they used an M20 in an E30 chassis?


What is the point of your posts? Did you want the opinion of some established members here or do you just want to jibber jabber? I'm not really interested in talking you out of spending your money. Notice I didn't tell you to turbo or engine swap. I explained to you how upgrading to a MAF isn't going to do squat for you (or anyone with a stock N/A M20) and that if you want to buy a chip there are less expensive alternatives.

If you want to argue about dyno graphs or whatever then spend some more time on the boards because there are plenty of those threads around already and I couldn't care one way or the other what you or digger thinks about the matter enough to go providing whatever constitutes "proof" of what I'm writing here.

[mikeb23ft]

On what basis do you conclude there are more similarities between the car in the dyno charts and yours? The fact that they used an M20 in an E30 chassis?


What is the point of your posts? Did you want the opinion of some established members here or do you just want to jibber jabber? I'm not really interested in talking you out of spending your money. Notice I didn't tell you to turbo or engine swap. I explained to you how upgrading to a MAF isn't going to do squat for you (or anyone with a stock N/A M20) and that if you want to buy a chip there are less expensive alternatives.

If you want to argue about dyno graphs or whatever then spend some more time on the boards because there are plenty of those threads around already and I couldn't care one way or the other what you or digger thinks about the matter enough to go providing whatever constitutes "proof" of what I'm writing here.

Of course I want to jibbed jabber, its the Internet.

[digger]

If you want to argue about dyno graphs or whatever then spend some more time on the boards because there are plenty of those threads around already and I couldn't care one way or the other what you or digger thinks about the matter enough to go providing whatever constitutes "proof" of what I'm writing here

thats fine if you care nothing about whether a product actually does/doesn't provide benefits but dont expect other people to just take your word for it, some people like to see proof/evidence before they spend money.

[george graves]

I run a cam gear that is +360 degrees. Works amazing. I'll sell you one if you want.

[smooth]

thats fine if you care nothing about whether a product actually does/doesn't provide benefits but dont expect other people to just take your word for it, some people like to see proof/evidence before they spend money.

You're talking out your asshole sideways if you think that someone is better off spending a thousand dollars on a Miller/MAF kit on a completely stock setup rather than a chip from one of the professional tuners for $300.

If he wants the most bang for his buck he'll take that money and spend it on driving school. That's the best first mod anyone can benefit from, imo.