M20 Gates Racing Belt Coming Soon.....

[Cambiocorsa]

I would absolutely want one of these on my vehicle. Timing belt durability is a huge worry of mine, founded or unfounded as it may be.

[FLG]

Nice to see gates taking an interest like they are. Hopefully they make it by the end of the year so I have a winter project

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[Pdxseth]

I'm in for one.

[SmokeE30]

You should ask gates what's the deal with tensioners for these, would it be compatible with an OE tensioner? ( also who is the OE tensioner supplier?) or does a racing belt require a different tensioner from Gates? I only like to use OE timing belt stuff because it's a vital area in the m20 but the proven reliable OE parts are cheap and readibly available. So far I can see the racing belts advantage it a high heat environment like a turbo build but outside of that i want to know why use the racing belt over a standard gates replacement belt (if that is the OE belt. The only thing the OE belts suffer from is a short replacement interval, if the raving belt doesnt change that I'm not sure I'd would be inclined to spend 3 to 4 times as much on belt changes every couple years.

[whodwho]

Since you have their attention on this thread I will voice up my interest on this as well. 8^)

[IveGotIssues666]

Alright so here is the latest update from the Gates Representative, basically answered most of you guys question regarding service interval and any other questions you may have had and a bit more info regarding Contitech Belts not being the OE supplier to BMW etc..

"Hey Jared,
Been reading your forum thread. I’m glad the guys out there are interested. I did see this one quote from one of the posters regarding the service interval of the belt and I wanted to comment:

“sometimes (usually) you don't get the same % increase in longevity as you do with % increase in static strength. “

This is pretty much the best way to look at it. The racing belt will be stronger than the OE belt by an OBSCENE amount. The original OE belt construction called for a high temp version of standard Neoprene rubber, something that was probably considered cutting edge in the early 80s when the belt was initially going into production but today it falls woefully short of modern expectations. This is something I try to stress to people when they are considering an aftermarket vs. OE belt. In the aftermarket we are not limited by the OE recipe, so to speak. We use it as a starting point, but if a better construction method or materials come along, then we can make changes to the product line that reflect that. Buying the OE timing belt just means you’re buying 1980s chemistry, but this is the 21st century. Also, incidentally, Gates was OE on this belt out of our plant in Aachen, not Contitech. Conti gets a lot of credit for being OE on European applications that are actually Gates OE projects. I guess because they are a European brand so people assume they are OE on everything European?

But I’m digressing, so let me get back to the point. The racing belt we will make is going to be a whole heap stronger than the OE belt. Better rubber, better cure process, better tensile cord, Kevlar reinforcement, the works. Static strength will be much increased. Even longevity should be increased, but that’s where I have to qualify my statement. Because this is not the OE belt, and we assume you guys are putting this belt on vehicles that have been modified, it is nearly impossible for me to give you a standard replacement interval. There are too many variables: modifications, different engine outputs, different uses/driving habits. Obviously a guy who leaves the car nearly stock and drives to church on Sunday is going to see more belt life than a guy who puts a huge blower on the engine, maybe a squirt of nitrous, a flux capacitor, a warp drive, etc etc.

Long story short, I like to say that the racing belt should last the normal OE replacement interval even after you modify the vehicle. Can it and will it go longer? Sure, its possible. But I can’t promise you something like that for the usual corporate liability reasons.

Another thing to consider is that the Gates racing belts are optimized for strength and durability in high horsepower and high torque applications. They are not optimized for other types of performance. So, if you put a racing belt on your vehicle and then you notice some timing belt noise, that is a compromise you might have to accept. We have heard complaints from some Audi/VW folks. An enthusiast will install one of our racing belts and then say that they get timing belt noise for the first 10 minutes until the drive gets up to temp. I remind these guys when I come into contact with them that the OE belt is optimized for all types of performance: power delivery, belt life, NVH control, cost, etc. When you buy a Gates racing product, you are buying something that is different from the OE construction and in some cases you will be sacrificing some of those optimized characteristics (most often NVH control and lower cost). Usually folks in the performance community understand this, but I just wanted to be above board. I’d say most of the time that noise complaints aren’t an issue, cost though…well…its usually higher. Sorry about that.

Also the “belt specs” I was referring to in my earlier email don’t refer to performance metrics, but the boring engineer type stuff like pitch length differential, cord winding tension, and all of the other things we have to dial in to make sure that the different materials we are using don’t result in a belt that is not compatible with your drive. The basic performance metrics you’ve seen before in reference to Gates racing timing belts will still apply. Your mileage may vary based on what else you do to the vehicle, but I’d love to hear any feedback once we get the belt out to you.

I’ll follow up with my engineer today and see where we are on creating a spec sheet and I’ll keep in touch when I have updates. Thanks again for contacting us."

[Peelsbimmer]

Just pick up my first e30 and she has been sitting for the last three years. Pretty sure she could use some new belts!! I'll be more than happy to try these out.

[Sagaris]

I would buy one for sure

[MR 325]

Very excited for this! Definitely would love to offer them through BimmerHeads! :D

[FLG]

Im in! Would use it on my FI m20 for sure!

Please keep us updated.

Another vote for gutenparts, ill give Levent a heads up.

[IveGotIssues666]

sometimes (usually) you don't get the same % increase in longevity as you do with % increase in static strength.

And if this happens to be the case then they would be better suited for FI setups more than lets say a stock setup.

However like I stated before I have no specs as the Belt hasn't been manufactured yet. PLEASE don't turn this into a pissing match, once I have belt specs when the belt is made I will post up all the info I can. I do not work for Gates, I am not trying to sell these belts personally, I am just a enthusiast trying to help the community out in one way or another.

[digger]

I dont have that info since they haven't even made it yet (But trying to by September) but it would have to at least meet or exceed OE specs 4yr/50k. The Racing belts are are rated 300% stronger and I run them on my VW and other customers cars



Thanks for the list I'll compile a list and give it to the Gates Rep. Pricing I'm sure Varies but from what I've seen online for VW/Audi V6 Belts which are really Long and Wide can be had for around $100 mark. The M20 is a small belt not long and not wide at all so material shouldnt cost as much to make as the VW/audi v6 belts


But Like I said I know nothing yet the belt hasn't been made just yet, I will keep everyone updated

sometimes (usually) you don't get the same % increase in longevity as you do with % increase in static strength.

[gtdragon980]

Sounds awesome! Imagine not having to replace our timing belts every 4 years!

[IveGotIssues666]

what will be service interval of said timing belt?

I dont have that info since they haven't even made it yet (But trying to by September) but it would have to at least meet or exceed OE specs 4yr/50k. The Racing belts are are rated 300% stronger and I run them on my VW and other customers cars

I'd be interested depending on price and service interval. Just getting ready to do a head swap/cam upgrade.

www.rmeuropean.com
www.blunttech.com
www.turnermotorsports.com
www.autowerksofamerica.com

Thanks for the list I'll compile a list and give it to the Gates Rep. Pricing I'm sure Varies but from what I've seen online for VW/Audi V6 Belts which are really Long and Wide can be had for around $100 mark. The M20 is a small belt not long and not wide at all so material shouldnt cost as much to make as the VW/audi v6 belts


But Like I said I know nothing yet the belt hasn't been made just yet, I will keep everyone updated

[nomansland92]

Id be interested in one for my next build