200whp with stock N/A rotating assy?

[e21jps]

:) I think we all suffer from the same infectious thirst for knowlege and need to know WHY something works, compared to something that doesnt.

Its true the Roland manifold enters the head at a straight angle where the port has a roof that sits about 30 degrees so that is one place where things are FAR from ideal. If a Jenvy can make similar power i would be all eyes and ears, because the only fundamental difference to extrudabody that i can see is the injector placement?? and thats something im itching to play with!! Personally i think its a tall order to think simple injector placement will make up for such a large lack of runner velocity but one thing i have found is not to take ANYTHING for granted

I will offer the same deal to anyone who is willing to do a back to back, i will fully refund the used kit and even pay for return postage if someone wants to try my kit on an engine already fitted with a Jenvy kit :)

Not so much to sell a kit but to get an insight on WHAT difference having the injectors further from the valve actually makes

[digger]

No argument besides the manifold (ie head to TB design) is at play here. Would your view change if the Jenvey setup made more? Not playing sides here, BUT, am a small independent shop in South Florida who really is testing stuff.


Rama, one day is fine, the next is black. Let's get 'er done. Would love to run your kit for no better reason than you are a gent like me.

Just put a locals' tune up, as mentioned, it is what it is. No hold barred. My job is to deliver to the client.

i have no idea what the jenvey setup is, is it bigger manifold area, bigger throttles, longer overall runner length,..... and more of what exactly ? peak hp, peak tq, average torque?... depends what the goal is

The RHD kit used here is obviously not the maximum hp you can get nor maximum torque possible buts its a good compromise for a variety of spec engines from 2.5L to 3.1L as shown with the results.

[ForcedFirebird]

My testing (probably 5 or 6 separate visits the dyno for power runs testing two different manifolds and many different lengths and runner volumes) showed that runner diameter and length are why the RHD trumps the others across the rpm spectrum.

The manifold specifically the proper alignment angle and transition shape helps topend due to better overall inlet tract flow (this will show on the flow bench) but midrange is largely dictated by diameter and length.

If a 45mm throttle can sustain 400bhp on a 6cyl why would you use them on something well below 300hp? It doesn’t make sense on an engine that needs a broad power band.

The RHD setup trumped the EB setup across the board, you have to look at where the gains are in terms of rpm and what could cause them.

No argument besides the manifold (ie head to TB design) is at play here. Would your view change if the Jenvey setup made more? Not playing sides here, BUT, am a small independent shop in South Florida who really is testing stuff.


Rama, one day is fine, the next is black. Let's get 'er done. Would love to run your kit for no better reason than you are a gent like me.

Just put a locals' tune up, as mentioned, it is what it is. No hold barred. My job is to deliver to the client.

[squidmaster]

Those are definitely impressive numbers on those ITBs!

[digger]

I don't believe it's the Extrudabody kit as much as it is the Rowland manifolds. Will try and get some pics later today. I have a set and they don't match the m20 head very well.

My testing (probably 5 or 6 separate visits the dyno for power runs testing two different manifolds and many different lengths and runner volumes) showed that runner diameter and length are why the RHD trumps the others across the rpm spectrum.

The manifold specifically the proper alignment angle and transition shape helps topend due to better overall inlet tract flow (this will show on the flow bench) but midrange is largely dictated by diameter and length.

If a 45mm throttle can sustain 400bhp on a 6cyl why would you use them on something well below 300hp? It doesn’t make sense on an engine that needs a broad power band.

The RHD setup trumped the EB setup across the board, you have to look at where the gains are in terms of rpm and what could cause them.

[Reichart12]

You guys inspire me lol. Engine build now in the planning process for me.

[ForcedFirebird]

I don't believe it's the Extrudabody kit as much as it is the Rowland manifolds. Will try and get some pics later today. I have a set and they don't match the m20 head very well.

[digger]

So extrudeabody is just as good as dbilas.....aka waste of money.

This should not be not surprising when the thing is sized for circa 400hp just like the dbilas one and the lengths appear too short with the extrudeabody kit just like it is with the dbilas.

There is only one kit worth spending money on if you want performance http://www.racehead.com.au/

[MPLFoster]

Sub'd for M20 awesomeness!

[e21jps]

Hey Guys
perfect timing to transfer a bit of info from the sister thread at e3t

This is engine is almost identical to 6spd its 2.8 with comp cam and bit of head work etc. It made just under 200 with the stock manifold then with a wrongly matched set of itbs it made just over 200, But when he changed to correctly matched ITB's (my RHD ones) it went over 230 Hp!!

Need to point out this guy is not a close buddy with a workshop or anything we havnt even met he just called me asking how to get his m20 racer going better. He was skeptical at first so i offered to give him a full refund if my ITB's didnt make significant power gains and these are the graphs he sent me.

this is before with wrong ITB's



And this is with RHD itb's fitted and onverlay drawn on




More to the ACTUAL purpose of this thread we have also done a ~200rwKw (148.4rwKw) build with mild head upgrade to a very stock untouched low comp eta bottom end by using a 272 cam some 885 intake valves in a 731 head with a bit of porting, and set of my itbs.... so 200rwHp should be VERY doable with an 885 head and smart engine combo on an untouched bottom end etc.

[digger]

Ha this was my build.

885 Head - Ported & Polished
Stock Valves
Metric Mechanic Outer Valve Springs (good for 11,000rpm)
Stock Inner Valve Springs
272 Cam (Daily Driver... Wish I went a little more aggressive with the cam... Next time)
HD Rockers
19lb Injectors

ETA Block at 2.8L
Custom Ross Racing Pistons 10:1 compression 1mm over bore
ETA Crank
Crank Scraper
S52 Rods + ARP Connecting Hardware

Long tube headers
Free flow custom 2.5in exhaust

Probably forgot a thing or two

Mild Motronic tune running 100octane to defeat detonation at WOT.

She's a lil riot, feel free to PM me with any questions.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=308139

thats the right cam for that spec motor you dont have enough compression to run much bigger without compromising the bottom end and midrange torque it will also feel less crisp and more doughy which is not good for a street car it gets tiresome pretty quick.

get rid of the entire stock intake (air filter asm, afm, tb, manifold) that is the restriction and the thing to do next if you want more

[ForcedFirebird]

running 100octane to defeat detonation at WOT.

Shouldn't have detonation at WOT with premium fuel and a solid tune.

[ForcedFirebird]

Yes, Motronic 1.3 and stock AFM.

[tinkerputzer]

Best to date on an all stock motor was 157whp header and exhaust only car. It has the Racing Dynamics headers, true merge collector in reverse to a Vibrant 2.5" resonator, back to true merge into a Billy Boat rear section, OEM induction, cam, rebuilt head, dyno tuned.

Excaclty what i was looking for. Just to clarify it was tuned with motronic and an afm?

[6SPD]

build specs?

Ha this was my build.

885 Head - Ported & Polished
Stock Valves
Metric Mechanic Outer Valve Springs (good for 11,000rpm)
Stock Inner Valve Springs
272 Cam (Daily Driver... Wish I went a little more aggressive with the cam... Next time)
HD Rockers
19lb Injectors

ETA Block at 2.8L
Custom Ross Racing Pistons 10:1 compression 1mm over bore
ETA Crank
Crank Scraper
S52 Rods + ARP Connecting Hardware

Long tube headers
Free flow custom 2.5in exhaust

Probably forgot a thing or two

Mild Motronic tune running 100octane to defeat detonation at WOT.

She's a lil riot, feel free to PM me with any questions.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=308139