Street build help needed

[Meta]

I have an 87 eta daily driver that I I'm in the planning stage of building. I have a couple spare eta engines I can build without taking the car off the road. My goal is to have a suitable powerband to slide the back end out at vacant intersections without clutch dumping. That said I figure I'm going to need plenty of low end grunt. If possible, I would like to do this without boost as I'm not after maximizing overall horsepower and I HATE the idea of noticible turbo lag (I want, if possible, a linear power delivery). Exactly what kind of powerband am I after and what kind of actual output is needed to get a 4 door sideways with a stomp on the go pedal?

I'm planning on either a 2.7 or 2.8 stroker using ITB's, an 885 head, the eta block and crank plus all of the typical bolt ons. From there I am wondering if there is enough of a difference to justify the $$ needed to go from the eta rods with i pistons and shaving the block (nearly free as I mentioned I have the spare etas) to i rods and custom pistons with an 86mm bore. Will either of these give me enough umph to romp around the neighborhood or am I going to need to blow on it to control the slip with the throttle?

Budget isn't a huge concern as I'm in no rush but I'm not interested in wasting money either. I have the resources for customizing some parts and really I just want to have the proper setup for my driving style. Addressing the suspension will come later...

[digger]

Just get an open short diff and cheap tyres

If you want torque you want as much cubic inch as you can, good compression and small camshaft

[redlightpete]

Maybe an m30 swap is a better fit. +1 on the low grip tires, though you'll definitely want a limited slip diff. The one wheel peel is lame-o and harder to modulate.

[Meta]

i wasnt sold on the 25% lock for oe diffs. would welding the open diff be out of the question for a dd?

[TobyB]

yeah. Don't weld it.

t

[Meta]

Okay so heres what I'm figuring would be a good build.... I don't usually see much info on this configuration, it's usually the 84x84 deal.

81mm eta crank
86mm cutom pistons from IEwith a 10.5:1 CR
135mm rods (are ebay rods, say from cx racing, reliable?)
ITB kit from RHD
Megasquirt 2
885 head swap (fresh OE springs and valves)
HD rockers from IE
284* shrick or IE cam
Nuke Adjustable cam gear
Long tube header from IE
lightened flywheel
3.73 LSD

Any other critcal components I'm missing? Obviously there's a lot more parts I could get but with a setup like this, but I'm wondering what's necessary.
What other parts are likely to fail and need replacing or are directly obstructive to the gains that are possible with any of the listed mods?
I'm figuring about 220whp with a nice fat powerband... Does that seem close to those in the know?

[Meta]

Bump/alternative setup...

m90 supercharger
eta 81mm crank
eta 130mm rods
i mahle pistons
ITB
ms2
885 head swap
rockers
284* cam
nuke cam gear
headers/catback
ltw flywheel
LSD

I havent found exactly what the CR drops to without shaving the block on the 2.7i stroker... how low does it go?
What should I do to help the motor stay reliable on boost while maximizing power for pump gas or perhaps e85?

[redlightpete]

Okay so heres what I'm figuring would be a good build.... I don't usually see much info on this configuration, it's usually the 84x84 deal.

81mm eta crank
86mm cutom pistons from IEwith a 10.5:1 CR
135mm rods (are ebay rods, say from cx racing, reliable?)
ITB kit from RHD
Megasquirt 2
885 head swap (fresh OE springs and valves)
HD rockers from IE
284* shrick or IE cam
Nuke Adjustable cam gear
Long tube header from IE
lightened flywheel
3.73 LSD

Any other critcal components I'm missing? Obviously there's a lot more parts I could get but with a setup like this, but I'm wondering what's necessary.
What other parts are likely to fail and need replacing or are directly obstructive to the gains that are possible with any of the listed mods?
I'm figuring about 220whp with a nice fat powerband... Does that seem close to those in the know?

220 whp is pretty high for an m20. You'd probably need some head work and a bigger cam. Also, if you're going to the trouble and cost to use custom pistons, you might as well use a bigger crank too. At least 84 mm.

[Meta]

From what i've read around the forum and elsewhere...

The 885 head/valves don't lack the required flow below about 250hp, porting seems to do more to lower the velocity below that level.

A 284 cam seems to be about as aggressive as a street car should run before losing the low end.

Going for the longer stroke would be good for torque but would do less for increasing top end, so I thought the overbore configuration would be more helpful

Going with aftermarket pistons, rods, lighter flywheel, and the eta crank all help reduce rotating mass for a more free revving bottom end.

The ITB's and a good exhaust should account for the remainder even if it ends up being closer to 200whp...

Beyond that i'm not sure what would provide any decent gains and still allow the car to function as a DD, but I am rather new to all of this and would greatly welcome insight on whatever parts of my newbie theory aren't sound.

That said, I'm still curious which setup has the better potential as I havent seen many figures on s/c'd builds which usually use a roots blower that doesnt deliver compressed air which makes me wonder if it is a viable alternative to a good ol fashioned atmo build.

Again, I'm very wet behind the ears but have tried to educate myself as much as possible before deciding on a build and ordering a bunch of parts that I end up not using. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me clear up any misconceptions I have or help me decide on the optimal build for a super fun steet car

[SkiFree]

84mm stroke (m52 crank)
85mm bore
10:1 comp. pistons (IE/Mahle pistons)
135mm rods (either s52 or h-beams)
lightened flywheel (or e21 323i flywheel)
headwork: gasket-matched exhaust ports w/ cleaned bowels intake side
284/280 dual pattern cam
rhd 40mm itb's (emphasis on good tuning)
good long tube headers
ford yellow-top injectors

This formula is meant for a great balance between engine longevity, and power potential, all while being 91-octane friendly. You're intention on the overbore is nice but the law of unintended consequences kicks in.

And yes I'm biased. The formula above is an ideal M20 street hotrod build, BUT you may want to at least look into the M30.

[BMW B3N]

Hey, i'm in the same situation as you. I want something easy to skid but have a nice reliable powerband on a budget. I'm currently rebuilding my head using parts that you mentioned and I hate to be the guy who says "take what you think you'll be paying and triple it." but thats exactly what i'm feeling right now, and i'm just rebuilding the head with better internals and a cam. Looking at ur shopping cart it looks like you need deep pockets for all of that.

What i'd recommend is what i'm planning which in theory should be a simple drift build on a budget. Like i said i'm building my head for extreme reliability where i don't have to worry about my engine after redlining it especially since i'm just learning how to drift. After that i'm thinking getting another differential(so at least i'll have a back up)with 4.10 gears and welding it. Also i'm getting an e36 steering rack, e46 control arms, and I heard something about e92 tied rods strange enough. I am also sitting on GE coilovers and using an ASD hydro brake. Take it or leave it I don't think it takes massive amounts of hp to get sideways(especially when u have a welded diff) but if thats what you're looking for on a NA setup highly recommend different engine

[SkiFree]

^^^you need to read OP's first post again.

Budget isn't a huge concern as I'm in no rush but I'm not interested in wasting money either. I have the resources for customizing some parts and really I just want to have the proper setup for my driving style.

Looks like he's not afraid to spend money to do it right, he just doesn't want a pile of parts that doesn't match his intentions. A non-hackjob M20 stroker can be pretty potent, even a streetable one.

[BMW B3N]

I still think there is no such thing as non budget build but that's probably just me always being broke lol.

[digger]

From what i've read around the forum and elsewhere...

The 885 head/valves don't lack the required flow below about 250hp, porting seems to do more to lower the velocity below that level.

A 284 cam seems to be about as aggressive as a street car should run before losing the low end.

Going for the longer stroke would be good for torque but would do less for increasing top end, so I thought the overbore configuration would be more helpful

Going with aftermarket pistons, rods, lighter flywheel, and the eta crank all help reduce rotating mass for a more free revving bottom end.

The ITB's and a good exhaust should account for the remainder even if it ends up being closer to 200whp...

Beyond that i'm not sure what would provide any decent gains and still allow the car to function as a DD, but I am rather new to all of this and would greatly welcome insight on whatever parts of my newbie theory aren't sound.

That said, I'm still curious which setup has the better potential as I havent seen many figures on s/c'd builds which usually use a roots blower that doesnt deliver compressed air which makes me wonder if it is a viable alternative to a good ol fashioned atmo build.

Again, I'm very wet behind the ears but have tried to educate myself as much as possible before deciding on a build and ordering a bunch of parts that I end up not using. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me clear up any misconceptions I have or help me decide on the optimal build for a super fun steet car

the head flows 250bhp on the flow bench only.... at the very least given the amount you will invest i would get a basic port job by someone with a flow bench, the intake has a nasty habit of going turbulent without fixing the short side radius. if they know what they are doing there is minimal material removal and only within about an inch of the valve, just make the shapes more efficient not larger.....im also of the opinion that the exhaust side is critical againt the short side is not great.

id look at the enemZ45 cam, it has a nice shortish duration great for a moderate compression but nice tight lobe centres, otherwise what skifree said

[Meta]

84mm stroke (m52 crank)
This formula is meant for a great balance between engine longevity, and power potential, all while being 91-octane friendly. You're intention on the overbore is nice but the law of unintended consequences kicks in.

And yes I'm biased. The formula above is an ideal M20 street hotrod build, BUT you may want to at least look into the M30.

What unintended consequences? (out of curiosity)
I think an m30 sounds like a great idea but i'm concerned about weight (distribution)?

that said.... You do seem to have a darn good point Mr. Ski

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUkOmMecyPM