A Tale of 2 Guibos

[jeffnhiscars]

Like many of you, I'm a brand whore when it comes to parts. My next project is the 5 spd swap in to my Cabrio which is set to be done in 2 weeks. Among the "while you are in there" parts are to freshen the CSB and guibo.

Now when I dropped the subframe in the car I grabbed both those parts to have on hand, but ultimately my ambition failed and I never removed the drive shaft so those became spares. Now that I'm doing the tranny swap I realize that the small guibo will not work with the new drive shaft so I started searching.

I stumbled on one on Amazon that was quoted as "made in Germany by SGF" who is "an OEM supplier to..." damn near everyone including BMW, Mercedes etc. it was also only $26 shipped which would normally raise a red flag but..its Amazon so I went for it.

When it arrived I put it side by side with my spare, which happens to have come in a Lemforder box with the correct BMW PN on the outside and is clearly molded with the words "made in Germany" and "SGF GAB 01-009".

The new one had no such marking but did have the BMW PN molded in to it. Now IME when there's a BMW PN on something there is also a logo, plus I was expecting something similar to my spare with its clear markings.

I emailed the seller and asked about its authenticity and his responses were vague and ended with "return it for a refund". Not so fast.

I searched SGFs rather detailed website and did locate both types and the specs correspond with what I had...so I emailed SGH and within hours received a reply from one of thier R&D engineers who asked me for pics of both faces and the edge.

His replied that it s not there's as mine has 2 mold lines on the sides and theirs have only 1. He sent a pic for comparison.

The fake...



The real deal...



I called Amazon to report it as counterfeit which they said they would investigate. The product is now offered by a different seller at 2x the price "pending investigation"

Amazon asked they seller to send me a return label which arrived "postage due". I'm still giggling from that. Some people have kahunas, don't you think lol

[ak-]

Good on you.

[jeffnhiscars]

It gets more interesting. The factory has asked me to send them my fake and they will in turn send me 3 factory fresh replacements.

The return label I did receive has an NC address and an actual phone number that I have not called. What's also interesting is that when I do a search for the company I get a shipping database that gives me the principals name, the fact that they are "without state or country" and that they have imported one shipment to the US, through long beach since 2015.

Guess which country that shipment is from....hint....it's not Germany ;)

I love a good whodunit don't you lol

[Ether-D]

Three factory fresh giubos! I don't know why, but that just sounds awesome to me. I hoard odd things. I will be examining all of my parts much closer now.

[jeffnhiscars]

He says they are aware of fakes and like to examine the manufacturing quality which makes sense. I'll ask for results. They don't seem interested in trade mark or brand protection which is the more typical reaction from us litigious Yankees (including myself).

I'm actually tempted to send this to the DOT since clearly there's a potential safety issue here, not to mention outright fraud. I'm also curious to see what Amazon does.

I don't like this sort of crap in case you can't tell lol

[15Michaeljoseph]

Order another counterfeit to sent to the DOT lol!

Good on you for doing that. I almost had a similar dealing with FCP once on a plastic thermostat housing for the e36 M52 engine. I purchased "Original BMW", and recieved a housing that BMW seem quality, with a beefier gasket than the old one (a detail that screamed 'aftermarket' to me).... but NOWHERE on the part did it have a BMW stamp, and it was seal-packed in a clear plastic bag... no BMW markings or blue sticker on the bag either. Took me a couple days, but i was able to confirm through FCP and their dealer connection that it WAS, in fact, genuine. :/ Unless i got bamboozled twice.

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[jeffnhiscars]

I've done a lot of business with fcp and as honorable as they are, they too are at the mercy of the distribution channel. Fact is I ordered the replacement from but not until I spoke it's my contact there who had the part in his hands and confirmed its DNA (as best he could).

As far as the authorities go I don't knownhownfwr I'll take this. The DOT is a good choice but I think they would rather have a statement from the manufacturer after they've seen it, that states it's a fake rather than the DOT having to figure that out themselves. The other options are the NC Secty of State since the company is not in fact registered her although they have an NC address and clearly do business here. This also opens the door to the NC AG.

I have way better things to do and, you know, if the seller had just said "sorry, I bought from a wholesaler thinking it was real. Here's a prepaid label to send it back" I'd probably have chalked it up to shithappens.

Fact that he did import it himself makes him a liar and a fraud. Guys like this depend on people "taking it like a man" (think Bubba in cell block 10).. And I'm not that guy..at least not without flowers and some sweet talk.

The funny thing is, that if I didn't have this spare from this very same manufacturer (SGF) i would have just installed it and been none the wiser...til it failed in 6 months and I drive off a cliff.

[Das Delfin]

You don't think if you sent the part back to the factory they would know what to do with it? I feel they would have more knowledge to go after the amazon seller. The DOT guys would have to investigate bmw parts, aftermarket parts, authenticity, overseas suppliers.. on top of giving a damn in the first place. It seems SGF, being a company in the worldwide car market, would have the proper channels/lawyers to go after this guy directly

[jeffnhiscars]

Sorry if I wasnt clear. I am sending it back to the factory since they are the best ones to confirm if you they made it or not. He's already said that from th pics but if I'm going to take this anywhere, obviously it's best if they've inspected it and THEN made that statement.

I also gather from my correspondence with them that their intest is more intellectual curiosity rather than legal.

His exact words....

"it is not about to protect SGF. We already know that there are a lot of copies at the aftermarket. It´s just interesting for us to see the copies and the manufacturing standard"

I'm curious to see what Amazon does

[15Michaeljoseph]

Well hey, best case scenario, you expose the fraud, they get shut down, and you get 3 factory-new guibos for your efforts.

Worst case scenario, you expose the fraud, and you're on a business's secret hit list and have to hide for the rest of your life. After the DOT makes you testify against the bootleg company and seller, you won't be under the protection of the government, and you'll have to make it on your own... trusting no one, never living in the same place for more than two months at a time. You'll be changing identities and your e30's VIN number more often than you change your oil.

Then someday, they will catch up. Big Ronaldo will be knocking on the door with every intention to make it 'look like an accident'. You're smarter than he is, however, and manage to escape out of a second story window, onto a rooftop, and finally onto the ground. Your ankle is a little messed up, but livable, and you don't feel it with the adrenaline rush anyway. Realizing you left the keys to the e30 inside, you pull out your original wallet-spare key, get into your car, start it, dump the clutch, and peel off. At this exact moment, Ronaldo swears in a foreign language, and radios to the thugs outside, who give you chase in black Tahoes. They shoot at you with machine guns, busting out one tail light, and leaving holes in your rear window and trunk. You speed into the center of town, blowing through a red light, and dodging a big semi truck, but the lead Tahoe doesnt have time to react and smashes right into it. The other tahoe maneuvers around the accident. Looking into your rear view, you swear to yourself and lead the other tahoe into a construction site on the outskirts of town. Drifting through the site, workers dive out of the way, as your e30 nimbly navigates the rutted terrain and artfully slides into a bunch of water-filled drums... which miraculously only dent your driver's fender and door. The Tahoe swerves to avoid the drums, flies over an embankment, does a barrel-roll, and explodes into a ball of flames. You wipe the sweat from your brow, and smash through a chain link gate, finding yourself on a highway. You speed off into the daylight. You have to get to your old friend in Philly. He'll know what to do.

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[jeffnhiscars]

You left out.....I light up a Gauloise between gear changes and voice dial my lover to say "I haven't told you enough lately that I love you", then hang up, turn up the sound of the Rolling Stones to drown out the steady blast of their ak47s....yes...Philly.

And don't forget my headlights hinge down exposing my seat shock launchers..its E30MAN !!!

[jpod999]

Well hey, best case scenario, you expose the fraud, they get shut down, and you get 3 factory-new guibos for your efforts.

Worst case scenario, you expose the fraud, and you're on a business's secret hit list and have to hide for the rest of your life. After the DOT makes you testify against the bootleg company and seller, you won't be under the protection of the government, and you'll have to make it on your own... trusting no one, never living in the same place for more than two months at a time. You'll be changing identities and your e30's VIN number more often than you change your oil.

Then someday, they will catch up. Big Ronaldo will be knocking on the door with every intention to make it 'look like an accident'. You're smarter than he is, however, and manage to escape out of a second story window, onto a rooftop, and finally onto the ground. Your ankle is a little messed up, but livable, and you don't feel it with the adrenaline rush anyway. Realizing you left the keys to the e30 inside, you pull out your original wallet-spare key, get into your car, start it, dump the clutch, and peel off. At this exact moment, Ronaldo swears in a foreign language, and radios to the thugs outside, who give you chase in black Tahoes. They shoot at you with machine guns, busting out one tail light, and leaving holes in your rear window and trunk. You speed into the center of town, blowing through a red light, and dodging a big semi truck, but the lead Tahoe doesnt have time to react and smashes right into it. The other tahoe maneuvers around the accident. Looking into your rear view, you swear to yourself and lead the other tahoe into a construction site on the outskirts of town. Drifting through the site, workers dive out of the way, as your e30 nimbly navigates the rutted terrain and artfully slides into a bunch of water-filled drums... which miraculously only dent your driver's fender and door. The Tahoe swerves to avoid the drums, flies over an embankment, does a barrel-roll, and explodes into a ball of flames. You wipe the sweat from your brow, and smash through a chain link gate, finding yourself on a highway. You speed off into the daylight. You have to get to your old friend in Philly. He'll know what to do.

[dsphil]

This happens everywhere. I ordered a set of Lemforder rear links and this is whats inside the Lemforder box. I don't know why they even try to grind off the brand, but Boge still appear on the rubbers. With so many cross-manufacturing these days, you just don't know what you will get..

[15Michaeljoseph]

This happens everywhere. I ordered a set of Lemforder rear links and this is whats inside the Lemforder box. I don't know why they even try to grind off the brand, but Boge still appear on the rubbers. With so many cross-manufacturing these days, you just don't know what you will get..

[ATTACH]108396[/ATTACH]

Happened to me with their CAB's.... Lemforder owns part of Boge i guess... i always thought Sachs owned Boge or was a partner or something... who the hell knows anymore lol.

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[TobyB]

I don't know why they even try to grind off the brand,

Quite likely the ground- off letters were BMW. The OE's often sell through
their own chains as well, and rather than have 2 sets of tooling, just grind
off the BMW logo. The sharp tool edges are less than exciting, though, on a suspension component.

t