Any way to adjust the clutch engagement point?

[rturbo 930]

Hey guys,

I have an M20 and G260, stock disc, 618 pressure plate, E21 throw out bearing. The problem is the clutch engages immediately(!) off the floor, which is really kind of annoying. I'm finding that I grind gears pretty often now. It was pretty low before I swapped the PP and TOB, but not this low. Anything I can do about this? Is there a better TOB to use that I don't know about? Does this sound normal for this setup, or is there something wrong?

Thanks.

[e30davie]

Was the throw out bearing identical to the one you took out?

There are various throughout bearings with various heights, maybe you need a thicker one.

[rturbo 930]

Was the throw out bearing identical to the one you took out?

There are various throughout bearings with various heights, maybe you need a thicker one.

No, I compared it, and it was different. Part number 21 51 1 204 525. Based on what I read at the time, it seemed to be common to pair it with the 618 PP.

You're probably right that I need a different TOB. Just a matter of which one. I don't think there's another way to fix the issue, but I'd like to know if I'm wrong.

[rturbo 930]

And here's the part # on the one that came out, which I might add is not the correct part # for a TOB from a stock 325is: 053151231031

[e30davie]

Do you know what car the gearbox originally came from?

[rturbo 930]

Original gearbox as far as I know. Car is an '88 325is. To be honest, I've never considered that the gearbox might be different. I can't imagine why it would be, but I suppose I should double check next time it's out.

[NZM3]

The bolt connecting the m/c to the clutch pedal is concentric losen the nut and rotate the bolt to set the pedal hight.
Bleed the clutch.

[e30davie]

I had all kidns of dramas mixing and matching parts. there appears to be at least two types of getrag 260 boxes for e30s floating around, basically look identical but the clutch fork is further back in one of them to accowaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles for a thicker dual mass flywheel.

I found that the eccentric bolt did not have enough adjustment to fix having the wrong parts. my clutch pedal engagement point was just off the floor when i used a gearbox that originally came with a dual mass flywheel as well as a single mass flywheel.

The solution is to use a certain throw out bearing that is about 1" thicker, someone might chime in as to what that was.

My problem was fixed when the gearbox i was using didn't have 3rd gear, so i got a different gearbox that suited the single flywheel and all was good.

[rturbo 930]

About where is your pedal engagement now? Before I swapped PP + TOB, it was fairly close to the floor, but not ridiculously close.

I'm not sure exactly which cars got single mass and which got dual mass. My car was built 11/87, and the flywheel was a single mass. The junkyard motor I got, which as far as I can tell is identical to the one the original one it replaced, came from a 9/87 car, and again, it had a single mass flywheel. If my car originally had a dual mass flywheel, and was swapped out for a single mass flywheel for some reason during a clutch swap (which is possible, it has ~270k on it), that could explain my issue.

[ForcedFirebird]

AFAIK the dual mass was only on certain eta cars - which I have used single mass setups in without using the 323 TOB.

Recently I was measuring a bunch of used discs and PP's I had laying around the shop before chucking them. I noticed on the HD and aftermarket kits, there were differing amount of spring shims on the outside of the PP and the thickness of the disc compensated.

For instance, a stock e30 disc is ~9.2mm and the PP has ~2 spring shims as I recall. The ClutchMasters kit had double the amount of shims (they use a Sach's HD from what I can tell) and the disc was only ~8mm. Now if you were to miss and match PP/discs then you could be messing with your pedal travel. IE: A thin disc with a single-shim PP would disengage extremely close to the top of the pedal travel, and, the opposite if you had the thick disc and extra shims. It would take all the pedal travel before release.

Since our clutch release is hydraulic, the master is only going to move xx amount of fluid and in turn the slave is going to move xx amount of rod extension. Ever since BMW changed the TOB to the shorter design (after the 323), they all have the same dimensions up until the e46 (I haven't measured anything later). In fact the same pivot pin, spring retainer and TOB release forks have also been used the whole time too.

[e30davie]

How did my post above end up with "waffles" like 10 times. google suggests this is an r3v inside joke from many years ago.

[rturbo 930]

Hmm. Based on that info, I'm thinking that maybe I should just put a standard E30 TOB in. From what I was reading earlier, the E21 TOB is 30mm, and if the others are all the same, they must all be 25mm, which is what I measured the original TOB to be (from the ears to the top).

Truth be told, I don't know much about clutch related things, and I saw several people say I needed this TOB with this PP to keep my pedal engagement the same. I didn't measure the new PP versus the old one, maybe it's different, but I'm really not sure why the E21 TOB is needed. If there's only two types, and this one is clearly the wrong one, then the answer is pretty obvious. Looks like I spent more money for more headache. Dammit.

How did my post above end up with "waffles" like 10 times. google suggests this is an r3v inside joke from many years ago.

I think you slipped an extra 'c' in 'account'. And yeah, that's basically what it is, only no one remembered to get rid of the word filter.

[rturbo 930]

So I've been doing some reading (https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=407186) and it sounds like I have this backwards in my head. If I change the current TOB (30mm) to the one that came out (25mm), the problem will actually be worse - is that right? I'm also very curious now if my car originally had a dual mass flywheel. I'll have to find out what the measurements are for the deep vs shallow bell housings and compare against my own.

But if this post is correct, then my car should have a single mass flywheel.

There are two bellhousings, early model was single mass and same size as late model i trans. The dual mass was deeper is one you'll need the 323i tob.

[ForcedFirebird]

Sounds like it, but without looking at your PP and disc, you really can't tell. If you have an HD PP with the extra shims and the stock thicker disc, then your issue is stack height, not TOB location.

[rturbo 930]

If a 618 PP has extra shims, then that could indeed be my problem. No easy way to check the number of shims unfortunately unless someone else knows. The disc is the stock one that came out and it looked pretty healthy. I was under the impression it could be used with the stock disc though.

In the meantime I think I might check out the hydraulic system, although it doesn't feel spongy or like there's anything wrong. I suppose I should check the adjustment of the eccentric bolt as well.