Tempting!!! (V8 parts content)

[iamsam]

You just need to modify the propshaft - piece of cake really

Not really... modifying a driveshaft is definitely an involved (and expensive) process.

M62 with VANOS is a great and silent engine, though most probably you would need to replace vanos units and whole timing end (which you should do with normal M60 swap as well)..

As far as I know, no one manufactures a VANOS rebuild kit for the M62, and brand new complete VANOS units would cost more than your entire swap otherwise.

[JGood]

As far as I know, no one manufactures a VANOS rebuild kit for the M62, and brand new complete VANOS units would cost more than your entire swap otherwise.

Beisan Systems sells a seal kit.

http://www.beisansystems.com/products.html

Not sure what the common failure modes are on the m62 VANOS units, maybe that doesn't help.

[Jean]

Beisan Systems sells a seal kit.

http://www.beisansystems.com/products.html

Not sure what the common failure modes are on the m62 VANOS units, maybe that doesn't help.

Yep, they just finally put that on the market after many months of testing. You'll need the various special tools to do the vanos seas....big pita.

[iamsam]

Yep, they just finally put that on the market after many months of testing. You'll need the various special tools to do the vanos seas....big pita.

nice! yeah I heard something was in development, didn't hear that it was on the market now. Even so, huuuge PITA doing VANOS, it would be a lot easier to just bolt on non-vanos heads, or get a non-vanos engine.

[kalib0y]

DO IT, Once you go V8, you never go back.

[Jonsku]

Not really... modifying a driveshaft is definitely an involved (and expensive) process.

1. measure length
2. take the two driveshafts to the shop
3. after couple of days take the "new" 'shaft home and pay 100..200€

What's the big deal?

As far as I know, no one manufactures a VANOS rebuild kit for the M62, and brand new complete VANOS units would cost more than your entire swap otherwise.

VANOS unit price is somewhere around 800€, so it all comes back to how well are you going to do the swap anyways. Yes, you can just throw all parts in, but on the otherhand you could make it properly and service the whole car while you're stripping it all apart anyways..

[iamsam]

1. measure length
2. take the two driveshafts to the shop
3. after couple of days take the "new" 'shaft home and pay 100..200€

What's the big deal?

the 100-200 euro bit. Last I heard that job costs around $600 from Frank iirc. Hence the pain in the butt.

[Jonsku]

the 100-200 euro bit. Last I heard that job costs around $600 from Frank iirc. Hence the pain in the butt.

Still keep wondering how the price can be triple there in the states while basically everything else seems to be 20...50% cheaper. But, it costs what it costs. No way around it.

[bradnic]

Stay far away from m62tu's, one of the shittiest BMW V8's they ever made.

Can you back this statement up?

Clearly the M60 is a simpler/cleaner option for an E30 without the CAN-BUS stuff. Some people worry about the Nikasil/Alusil things as well, though FrankM E30's build is Nikasil and he swears by it.The M62TU has VANOS and smaller diameter intake runners and single vs double row timing chains but same hp and torque for the most part.

So I definitely get why the M60's a better E30 swap choice. and if a B40 isn't enough for you then some sort of M62/M60 frankenbuild will get you the added displacement and ability to take advantage of it (hopefully)

What I don't get is the "shittiest BMW V8's they ever made" comment.

[Jean]

You clearly haven't done any re-search then.... I've taken M62TU apart, M60B40 and M62B44 and have posted pictures of all 3 here.

M62TU = water cooled alternator (f that), vanos rattle, vanos solenoids, and the biggest issue of all the crappy U-shaped center guide rail for the single roll chain .

It's really not worth the hassle vs the m60b40 or m62b40 hybrid that others have done here. But, it's your choice :)

I've talked to a number of bmw mechanics that work on these day in and day out and pretty much everybody is on the same page.

[dirty30]

Still keep wondering how the price can be triple there in the states while basically everything else seems to be 20...50% cheaper. But, it costs what it costs. No way around it.

the 100-200 euro bit. Last I heard that job costs around $600 from Frank iirc. Hence the pain in the butt.

Ill back up jonsku here. I took my driveshafts to a local shop with a hand drawn diagram with lengths etc. They did exactly what I wanted. The shortened E32 front shaft was welded to the E30 rear shaft, balanced and a fresh coat of paint applied. Cost me $180.00 out the door. Fit perfectly and rotates smoothly. I don't know where these $500-600 estimates come from. I know frank got his U-joints replaced but still. I can post my diagram if anyone wants to use it.

[Jonsku]

You clearly haven't done any re-search then.... I've taken M62TU apart, M60B40 and M62B44 and have posted pictures of all 3 here.

M62TU = water cooled alternator (f that), vanos rattle, vanos solenoids, and the biggest issue of all the crappy U-shaped center guide rail for the single roll chain .

It's really not worth the hassle vs the m60b40 or m62b40 hybrid that others have done here. But, it's your choice :)

I've talked to a number of bmw mechanics that work on these day in and day out and pretty much everybody is on the same page.

Yes, M62 does have its weak points but it's not a big deal to replace the guide rail (which lasts some 200 000 km) once you are doing the swap and VANOS just makes some additional noise - which is the same as gearbox noise in case you have LW flywheel.


Even though the top performance figures are similar between M60 and M62, the absolute difference in performance is actually quite big (check e.g. the document on top here; http://wp1016621.wp027.webpack.hoste...297/f00297.htm ). In addition, by programming DME you can achieve much better performance than from M60B44 hybrid, due to VANOS - system.


+VANOS gives you more real-life power & torque
+Water cooled alternator keeps engine room temps slightly lower
+Less rotating mass (3kg lighter valve train)
+M62B44 + 6-speed 'box is much more common combination than M60B40 6-speed packages..

-Chain guide rails need changing every 100 000 miles
-VANOS-units rattle a bit
-Wiring is slightly more complicated


In the end it's up to what one values..

[Jean]

Vanos doesn't just rattle a LITTLE bit, it can actually be pretty damn loud and it does affect start-ups as well until oil pressure builds up. These are over $500 a pop, although repair kit has finally came out for these but requires a bunch of special tools as well. All this shit adds up...

Water cooled alternator keeps engine room temps slightly lower? Got any proof or hard data on that?

There have been many dyno plots posted where it clearly shows the extra "features" of TU just aren't worth it...

All imho of course :)

[Jonsku]

Vanos doesn't just rattle a LITTLE bit, it can actually be pretty damn loud and it does affect start-ups as well until oil pressure builds up. These are over $500 a pop, although repair kit has finally came out for these but requires a bunch of special tools as well. All this shit adds up...

Yes, it costs couple of dollars but hey - if you want to go for simple engine why not choose "american V8"? :) They for sure are simple and cheap..

Water cooled alternator keeps engine room temps slightly lower? Got any proof or hard data on that?

No. Do you? :)

There have been many dyno plots posted where it clearly shows the extra "features" of TU just aren't worth it...

How do you define "not worth it"? +10% useful power / torque throughout the rev band actually affects quite a lot on real-life performance..

[The Dark Side of Will]

Can the M60 chain idler be installed in the M62? If I had it apart for the U-guide, I'd be looking seriously at switching to the idler. The whole point of having a timing chain instead of a belt is that you DON'T have to tear the front end of the engine down every XXX thousand miles.

I believe, based on what Garey did with his swap, that the idler and corresponding guides bolt right up to the M62 block. I'm not sure if the'll bolt to the M62 heads or not, though. I supposed the single row timing chain might not line up with either of the dual rows of teeth on the idler, but a little machining off one side of the idler and a spacer on the other side should fix that.

My S62 has the U-guide. Based on the photos I've seen of disassembled blocks, it doesn't look like the idler support will bolt to the S62 block, so I'll have to figure out how to machine an intermediate bracket to make that happen.

If the M62 really does have meaningful improvement in area under the curve, that should be readily apparent from comparing dyno curves. What I've read makes me think that BMW detuned (less duration and lift in the cams) the M62 significantly for emissions reasons and used the VANOS to get it back to the M60's peak numbers. Why else would displacement go up 10%, but peak power and torque stay the same? That means that the M60B44 Frankenmotor should be in the neighborhood of 320-340 HP with a little tuneup on the cam timing and a good tune in the DME.

The water cooled alternator was used to get a higher power density out of the existing alternator package size so it could run all the E38 740i's electrical goodies. It is totally not necessary in an E30. It does nothing to reduce underhood temps, as the heat that the alternator produces just ends up in the radiator--and therefore all over the engine bay--instead of the cooling air flowing through the alternator.

Can't the lower timing cover from the M60 be swapped on to the M62 to eliminate the water cooled alternator?

I have no experience with the VANOS noise (YET) so I can't weigh in on that discussion.