M60b44 #

[JCarp90]

Serious question: Why did you vote the way you did? If you thought it would make 320+, why?

Just curious. My guess is stock M62 power, but that's just because there really are no power adders. Tune will help, but not significantly I don't think. I think stock M62 was 281hp at the crank, so that would be like 65+ HP gain to hit the 320 mark.

[The Dark Side of Will]

He said previously that he was extrapolating to crank numbers, so it's +~40 HP, not +65+.

An M60B40 is rated at 280 HP, so +10% for displacement comes to 308 and +5% for compression increase comes to 323.
Is there any diddling available to be done with cam timing? I understood that the M60 had a pretty wide lobe separation angle, which could be closed up a bit for better top end with stock displacement and definitely should be closed up a little bit to keep top end with the increased displacement.

[JGood]

Why in the world are you guys trying to guess crank HP? You'll be getting a WHP number on a chassis dyno, that's about as precise as it gets... Why try to guess a number that you're just estimating from that? Especially when you don't have a crank HP baseline to begin with. The factory rated numbers are obviously way off... so you can't compare to the 290hp or whatever BMW marketed them as. There's probably over 100 dyno sheets from m60b40's and m62b44's on bimmerforums, that's what you'd want to compare your dyno sheet to, to see where the curve is in comparison to the two factory engines. The b40 always makes ~25-50 less torque then the b44 below 4k, that's where it'll be interesting to see where this hybrid engine fits in.

He said previously that he was extrapolating to crank numbers, so it's +~40 HP, not +65+.

An M60B40 is rated at 280 HP, so +10% for displacement comes to 308 and +5% for compression increase comes to 323.
Is there any diddling available to be done with cam timing? I understood that the M60 had a pretty wide lobe separation angle, which could be closed up a bit for better top end with stock displacement and definitely should be closed up a little bit to keep top end with the increased displacement.

Your math is based on an imaginary number. 280BHP is like 225-235whp. I've never seen a properly running m60b40 dyno less then 250whp on a chassis dyno. I've seen some up above 260whp, and some m62b44's around 280whp. Some of these things are already putting down 320+chp from the factory.



Anyway, I'm guessing you'll see ~270whp until you get it tuned, then ~290whp depending on how well it's tuned, how well sorted the engine is (timing, piston ring condition, etc...), and what dyno is used.

[Vtec?lol]

Playing with the timing on the cams makes a huge difference.
I advanced my intake cams to the max and it feels like I strapped on a turbo. Maybe they were too far wetahdid to begin with but I'm happy.

[P Arkus]

Anyway, I'm guessing you'll see ~270whp until you get it tuned, then ~290whp depending on how well it's tuned, how well sorted the engine is (timing, piston ring condition, etc...), and what dyno is used.

I think those would be some great numbers seeing as the OBD1 S52 guys with cams, intake, large injectors, big throttle body and tune are seeing about 265whp at best, and with all those mods its a much more expensive swap!

[The Dark Side of Will]

Playing with the timing on the cams makes a huge difference.
I advanced my intake cams to the max and it feels like I strapped on a turbo. Maybe they were too far wetahdid to begin with but I'm happy.

I figured BMW had set the engines up for a broad torque curve, which could be significantly biased toward the high end of the tach for those of us who don't mind downshifting to pass. I *LIVE* for the downshift. :D

I think those would be some great numbers seeing as the OBD1 S52 guys with cams, intake, large injectors, big throttle body and tune are seeing about 265whp at best, and with all those mods its a much more expensive swap!

Well... with the M60B44, you basically have to buy two engines AND a bunch of fairly expensive gaskets to put the block together.

The engines are cheaper and they just take stock replacement gaskets... I don't know if that would end up cheaper than the S52 or not.

However, there's no replacement for displacement.
For those of us who decide we *NEED* to do the 32V swap, I don't think a 24V swap would fill the void, even if it made the same power.

And certainly a built M60B44 would make more N/A power than a built S52 and probably more than a built S54, although the S54 is a tough customer in that regard. I hear they top out around 340 at the wheels, which is about what a stock E39 M5 puts down.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Why in the world are you guys trying to guess crank HP?

Because benchracing ;)

[JCarp90]

I should have explained my question better. BMW advertises 280hp at the crank and his numbers are obviously only going to be proven at whp. So what makes some think it will make 320+whp?

[P Arkus]

I'm assuming for your latest poll, you are using crank HP numbers rather than wheel HP. Are you just going to factor in a certain percentage to drivetrain loss and add that back in when you do the dyno? or will you be doing an engine dyno?

I will factor in the drive trainloss

I asked that question earlier and that's why I voted 320+. Its a VERY wild estimate as Jgood pointed out, these are all based on imaginary numbers. Using Dyno's as a means of "how much power did I gain" is absolutely useless unless you did a before dyno on the same machine, and with mostly the same conditions. Either way though, benchracing can be fun as long as everyone is in it for the same reasons.

If we're talking WHP, I'm with Jgood. I think once the car is tuned and sorted, he will be seeing just under 300whp, which is pretty decent for N/A!

[driftingminor913]

Hey sorry in haven't been posting a lot lately, it's been really shitty weather here in kansas, but I have been busy with this whole valentines day
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Also go these today to fix some serious leaks and get it running more better.

[driftingminor913]

Instalking a cooling fan on the car today having a little trouble with it cooling, but after I get it on and some oil leaks fixed, going to hook it up to a data reader whatever thing and see what The AFR is looking like at idle and on Full load. Drove the car around last night too and notice that I would get a CEL when not giving it throttle but when 25%-50%throttke was givin it would disappear. But idk if that was just from un-hooking the battery and the computer not adjusting to the motor cause now it's not on anymore.

Will keep you guys posted on the readings I get. Will have to run them by my tuner also and see what he says.

[JCarp90]

If he answers the phone.

[driftingminor913]

Got the car out finally today and fixed more leaks. Put a fan on it and that fixed my cooling issues. Took it to a buddy's shop and thought that his scanner could pick up the AFR's on the O2's but I couldn't get a reading. Sooo I will have to buy a AFR gauge and wideband for the readings and also finish my exhaust too.

[driftingminor913]

Got these a couple days ago

[driftingminor913]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCT-3ni4Hdc&feature=youtu.be

Got a little crazy.