S62 e30 handling questions

[Panici]

Unless you're Michael Schumacher, there is no way you will notice 100lbs more in the front end.

Are you sure about that?

I'm no pro driver, but I did two track evenings within a few weeks, the only difference being that I took 84.1lbs out of the rear end the second time. (By swapping to a lightweight battery, and removing the rear seats.)

I absolutely felt a difference, it completely changed how the car felt and behaved on the limit.
Obviously this is a bigger difference then taking the same weight out of the front end, as the rear was already pretty light without a spare tire, trunk tar, etc.


That second evening, I also took passengers ranging in weight from 150-195lbs, and the change in feeling again was noticeable, as was the difference in laptimes.


My car weighed ~2472.7lbs (without fuel or driver) that second evening, so even a small increase in weight (or change in position of weight) is noticeable.
[~2649lbs on my quickest lap with 10L fuel and driver]


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All that said, you are adding a lot of power to the chassis, so overall weight isn't as big of a deal.
You should add some weight over or behind the rear wheels to balance out the S62.

Then if you wish, you can tweak the feeling of the (now heaver) car with different spring rates, sway bars, tires, etc.
That's my plan when I eventually get around to a 24v turbo swap.


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[Pipes]

I'm doing an s62 swap right now; it's almost done. I used to have a supercharged S52 in my car and it definitely felt nose heavy. The supercharger was about 40 lbs for everything, and it was hung off the front of the engine. So I am hoping that the feel will improve significantly. I'm running a 5spd with a lightened flywheel, so all in I believe the s62 will weigh ~30 lbs less than the old setup and the weight will be much further back.

I'll post the weights once I have it aligned and corner balanced.

[e30davie]

Perhaps it might be a matter of just do it and see how it goes, changing springs is not a costly exercise in the grand scheme of things. My old corolla with an engine conversion had about 5 different spring rates over the years i had it, each iteration of suspension got a bit closer what i was happy with. I got to the point of having some springs custom made cause i couldn't buy what i wanted off the shelf. Surprisingly affordable.

edit, you could also make some carbon fiber bonnet and guards to offset the weight too:)

[whitebulat22]

No way an S62 block only weighs 60lbs. An S52 block is about 80Lbs and an S54, which is more comparible to an S62 in technology and construction, is heavier. The S54 is about 475Lbs, the S62 has to be heavier. Even the S65, which is built using lighter and newer technology, is significantly heavier than the S54.

Of course, the S62 is badass for sure - but lightness is not one of its strengths.

It's probably a tiny bit higher I agree, I was just basing it off of JGood's M60 block which weighed 62 lbs I think. I can't imagine it being more than 70 though because they already had the linerless block thing down. I also agree the S62 is well over all the sixers, because I saw two independents with both S65 and S54 found the S65>S54 by a lot.

Lightweight flywheel and 5 speed trans for me if I ever did something like this, saving more than 50 lbs already! I think this would put it at worst equal to a 6 speed LS swap weight wise so an LS test drive can settle the question for good.

[varg]

Not necessarily more comparable with an S62 once you get past the dual vanos head, the S54 has a cast iron block while S62 has an aluminum block. The S54's oft quoted 478lb weight seems reasonable when compared to other BMW engines (though we still don't know what the state of the engine is in this weight spec) but I've only found one mention of a realistic (in comparison to other engines) weight for the S62 and it was 527lbs. A mention of 348lbs that I saw in a couple of places reeked of short block weight. All in all +50lbs is not bad considering an extra cylinder head and 1.7L of extra displacement. I recently did a swap which added 50-60lbs of engine weight and only gained 698cc! Though the displacement increase was not the only advantage.

An S62 is Still heavier and larger than an LS1 potstir :popcorn:

[nando]

I've tried my best to figure this out myself, and what I've come up with:

-general consensus is the m60 engine is just heavier than an m50, let's say with a 5 speed trans apples to apples maybe 20-40 lbs over that which is 20-40 over an M20. The m60 packaging advantage length and height wise is probably enough to be similar in feel to an M50. Every m20-m60 swap I've seen reports a little nose heavy feel, this seems to happen similarly with 24v swaps.

-according to Aquila Racing, the m60 is 10 kg below an ls series engine perfect apples to apples comparison. An s62 with all it's extra goodies should be comparable to an LS, even if the engine is a tad heavier remember the trans is 15-40 lbs ish lighter than a T56 depending 5 or 6 speed. The blocks weigh just over 60 lbs, m60 heads with gears 57 each (weighed heads myself). Crank is light at 41 lbs, so short block is not porky. Anybody with an LS swap will be valuable input.

In any case I absolutely wouldn't be worried as long as you're able to adjust a little bit with your springs and shocks, haven't heard any complaints from any aluminum block v8 swaps.

No way an S62 block only weighs 60lbs. An S52 block is about 80Lbs and an S54, which is more comparible to an S62 in technology and construction, is heavier. The S54 is about 475Lbs, the S62 has to be heavier. Even the S65, which is built using lighter and newer technology, is significantly heavier than the S54.

Of course, the S62 is badass for sure - but lightness is not one of its strengths.

[varg]

That's what I'm basing my opinion on. I've owned a 318is and 325is at the same time. I also have a s14 M3 and a s52 325is swapped car. Big difference in handling when you actually go drive the cars hard and take corners with both. I've given numerous people rides in both my cars back to back and the feeling was mutual. The s52 car also had better suspension than my M3 had. Now if your talking straight line or cornering slow then I'll agree you can't feel a difference.

You seem to have read my post and taken the exact opposite of what I am actually saying from it

In my research, an s62 is actually a very light engine. it weighs almost 100 pounds less than an m50.

no

[JGood]

In my research, an s62 is actually a very light engine. it weighs almost 100 pounds less than an m50. however it would still take more oil, and it would be silly to do this swap without a 6 speed(just my opinion). But still even with those two add ons, youre probably still quite a bit less than m50 and right around what an m20 weight is. I've been considering this swap as well, but have never driven one, but I'd assume it would feel pretty normal. check wikimotors!! they have great numbers and statrs for you to compare!

None of that is correct. And reading the crap on that website makes my head hurt...

[Speedracer81]

In my research, an s62 is actually a very light engine. it weighs almost 100 pounds less than an m50. however it would still take more oil, and it would be silly to do this swap without a 6 speed(just my opinion). But still even with those two add ons, youre probably still quite a bit less than m50 and right around what an m20 weight is. I've been considering this swap as well, but have never driven one, but I'd assume it would feel pretty normal. check wikimotors!! they have great numbers and statrs for you to compare!

[Bmwdayz]

Weight

That's patently untrue. Drive a 318is and a 325is back to back then try to tell me that. It's only a 70lb combined difference between M20/G260 and M42/G240

That's what I'm basing my opinion on. I've owned a 318is and 325is at the same time. I also have a s14 M3 and a s52 325is swapped car. Big difference in handling when you actually go drive the cars hard and take corners with both. I've given numerous people rides in both my cars back to back and the feeling was mutual. The s52 car also had better suspension than my M3 had. Now if your talking straight line or cornering slow then I'll agree you can't feel a difference.

[delamaize]

I honestly don't feel any difference in my M60 swap. the only thing I notice is all the wheel spin when I floor it.

Me too.

[varg]

Unless you're Michael Schumacher, there is no way you will notice 100lbs more in the front end.

That's patently untrue. Drive a 318is and a 325is back to back then try to tell me that. It's only a 70lb combined difference between M20/G260 and M42/G240

[Bmwdayz]

Engine Weight

Unless you're Michael Schumacher, there is no way you will notice 100lbs more in the front end. It's like having your 12-year old as a passenger -- don't believe all of the stuff Car & Driver, etc say about such things. Besides, with 350hp and 350lbft of torque, weight is no issue. Our swap will spin the tires at 60mph in 3rd gear. We weighed before and after the swap and gained about 90lbs.

Have you driven 2 of the same cars with different engines? Even 50lbs is noticeable!

[Old city bimmer]

I honestly don't feel any difference in my M60 swap. the only thing I notice is all the wheel spin when I floor it.

[garretvs]

Unless you're Michael Schumacher, there is no way you will notice 100lbs more in the front end. It's like having your 12-year old as a passenger -- don't believe all of the stuff Car & Driver, etc say about such things. Besides, with 350hp and 350lbft of torque, weight is no issue. Our swap will spin the tires at 60mph in 3rd gear. We weighed before and after the swap and gained about 90lbs.