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    #61
    Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
    By your own logic, if there were significant driveline stress from drifting, then drift cars would be popping axles left and right, just like drag racers. Since they don't, the driveline stress isn't such a big deal.

    I almost hate to say this, but you do know that driveshaft torque is lower in 3rd gear than it is in 1st gear, right? 100 mph is going to be third gear in pretty much any T56 car (unless it has ZR1 gear$...). That means a 1.3 ratio vs. 2.66. That means that the "clutch kick" you describe involves at most half the driveshaft torque of a first gear launch... in reality way less than half because the speed difference between the crankshaft and transmission input shaft is way less in that situation than it is in a drag strip launch, which means the flywheel energy that can be dumped into the driveline is way less as well.

    That is why I discount "driveline stress" from drifting.

    Uh, don't know what to tell you, but drift cars break axles pretty often. I already told you I'm done with this slap fight. The motor mounts will work great and handle whatever I'm going to throw at them. Move along unless you want to discuss something else.
    91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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      #62
      I'm sure we've all had the rubber motor mounts fail, I've had several cars where one or both failed. I doubt that arm fails before a rubber or poly mount.

      edit: And let's not forget how sad the stock stamped steel M20 motor mounts are. And this is what people use on 302s:

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        #63
        Originally posted by Elysian View Post
        I'm sure we've all had the rubber motor mounts fail, I've had several cars where one or both failed. I doubt that arm fails before a rubber or poly mount.

        edit: And let's not forget how sad the stock stamped steel M20 motor mounts are. And this is what people use on 302s:

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        Yeah. At the end of the day, I'm just glad I didn't have to pay Sikky prices for my mounts


        In non mount-related news, I just got done updating my parts/cost spreadsheet and factoring in cost of all of the stuff I hadn't really planned out in detail before.
        I've kind of had a general idea of cost, but I've been buying stuff as I need it and spend the money on the stuff as my bank account fills up.

        lol, kind of wish I would have left the actual total a mystery. Brutal to see how much I've spent and how much I have left to spend, but it's nice to see everything laid out and gives me a better road map of what I should spring for next.
        Legitimately considering a removal of the word "Budget" from my youtube video titles

        Since I've got my motor mounts showing up in a couple days -- I'm picking up a GS6-53BZ trans along with a PMC Motorsports Stage 1 Adapter, Flywheel, Clutch and Pressure plate kit as soon as my tax return shows up.
        I want to see what this motor looks like sitting in the car and start figuring out how the transmission will sit. All of that means I should get off my ass and reassemble my motor.
        91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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          #64
          Originally posted by Elysian View Post
          I'm sure we've all had the rubber motor mounts fail, I've had several cars where one or both failed. I doubt that arm fails before a rubber or poly mount.

          edit: And let's not forget how sad the stock stamped steel M20 motor mounts are. And this is what people use on 302s:
          I think the whole crux of this discussion is "the fact that people use them doesn't make is a good idea". BMW's M20 mounts have some engineering to them... and only have to handle 170 HP.

          Originally posted by DividedBeing View Post

          Yeah. At the end of the day, I'm just glad I didn't have to pay Sikky prices for my mounts

          In non mount-related news, I just got done updating my parts/cost spreadsheet and factoring in cost of all of the stuff I hadn't really planned out in detail before.
          I've kind of had a general idea of cost, but I've been buying stuff as I need it and spend the money on the stuff as my bank account fills up.

          lol, kind of wish I would have left the actual total a mystery. Brutal to see how much I've spent and how much I have left to spend, but it's nice to see everything laid out and gives me a better road map of what I should spring for next.
          Legitimately considering a removal of the word "Budget" from my youtube video titles

          Since I've got my motor mounts showing up in a couple days -- I'm picking up a GS6-53BZ trans along with a PMC Motorsports Stage 1 Adapter, Flywheel, Clutch and Pressure plate kit as soon as my tax return shows up.
          I want to see what this motor looks like sitting in the car and start figuring out how the transmission will sit. All of that means I should get off my ass and reassemble my motor.
          GS6-53BZ with LS? Interdasting. Have you picked your rear end gear yet?

          Yeah, tracking spending is always a PITA, which is why this is a hobby, not a business.

          Originally posted by DividedBeing View Post

          Uh, don't know what to tell you, but drift cars break axles pretty often. I already told you I'm done with this slap fight. The motor mounts will work great and handle whatever I'm going to throw at them. Move along unless you want to discuss something else.
          Lol.

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            #65
            Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post

            I think the whole crux of this discussion is "the fact that people use them doesn't make is a good idea". BMW's M20 mounts have some engineering to them... and only have to handle 170 HP.



            GS6-53BZ with LS? Interdasting. Have you picked your rear end gear yet?

            Yeah, tracking spending is always a PITA, which is why this is a hobby, not a business.



            Lol.
            I think we can probably get along fine if you're able to move on from the motor mount issue, man.


            Edit:IGNORE THE FOLLOWING. I thought I was reading mph but was reading kmh

            I'm going with a medium case -- 3.91 or 3.73 most likely, and I'm going to weld it. 4.10 is a little spicy for me, although I might try to slap one in at some point and see how I like it.
            Getting to any city around here requires a lot of highway driving, and I don't really want this thing revved out constantly when I've got a long drive home.
            I'm thinking the 3.91 is a great middle ground and should be at a somewhat comfortable rpm around 70-80 in 6th, assuming I have everything plugged in here correctly.

            I haven't really settled on wheels/tires yet, but I'm fairly certain I'll keep 14" for cheaper rubber. Just going on these size calcs until I make a decision.

            3.73:

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            3.91:
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            4.10
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            Last edited by DividedBeing; 02-14-2020, 04:59 PM.
            91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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              #66
              Recorded another video today -- just have to edit and post.

              Installed my cam, cleaned the surfaces a little more, used my 1/4" impact on the highest setting by accident on the lifter trays and fucking broke one of the bolts off lol.
              Got it out with an extractor without fucking up threads and picked up 4 new bolts just in case. My local ACE hardware is the fastener Mecca. Haven't run into a fastener I can't find there, thank god.

              Put the new LS9 gaskets and my heads back on, just barely tightened . Going to torque them down tomorrow in better light. Reusing the head bolts, because everything I've seen from Sloppy Mechanics and Driveway Engineer leads me to believe they're
              going to be just fine despite the concerns of a lot of dudes outside of that community. They've been wire wheeled and I blew out my threads pretty thoroughly. If I had a couple extra bolts, I'd make thread chasers, but I feel good about the long tube air gun.

              Extremely satisfying to see the motor like this after having it apart for months.

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              91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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                #67
                Originally posted by DividedBeing View Post

                I think we can probably get along fine if you're able to move on from the motor mount issue, man.

                I'm going with a medium case -- 3.91 or 3.73 most likely, and I'm going to weld it. 4.10 is a little spicy for me, although I might try to slap one in at some point and see how I like it.
                Getting to any city around here requires a lot of highway driving, and I don't really want this thing revved out constantly when I've got a long drive home.
                I'm thinking the 3.91 is a great middle ground and should be at a somewhat comfortable rpm around 70-80 in 6th, assuming I have everything plugged in here correctly.

                I haven't really settled on wheels/tires yet, but I'm fairly certain I'll keep 14" for cheaper rubber. Just going on these size calcs until I make a decision.
                LOL at the irony that you have to get the final word saying I should move on...


                LS != M20
                Your 3.73 with 53BZ option is going to have you turning 3500 at 80. Don't do that to an LS. Yes, people run 3.73's and 4.10's in LS equipped cars, but that's with the 0.50:1 sixth gear in a T56.
                Having that engine that wound up on the highway is going to get old fast--especially if it's loud--AND will give you terrible gas mileage.
                Camarobirds and Corvettes with T56 and 3.42 gears can knock down 30 mpg highway without much effort... AND they're still fast.
                Keep in mind the T56 has a 2.66:1 first gear while the 53BZ has a 4.01 first gear.

                I'd be looking at 2.79's or maybe a 210mm 2.65.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post

                  LOL at the irony that you have to get the final word saying I should move on...


                  LS != M20
                  Your 3.73 with 53BZ option is going to have you turning 3500 at 80. Don't do that to an LS. Yes, people run 3.73's and 4.10's in LS equipped cars, but that's with the 0.50:1 sixth gear in a T56.
                  Having that engine that wound up on the highway is going to get old fast--especially if it's loud--AND will give you terrible gas mileage.
                  Camarobirds and Corvettes with T56 and 3.42 gears can knock down 30 mpg highway without much effort... AND they're still fast.
                  Keep in mind the T56 has a 2.66:1 first gear while the 53BZ has a 4.01 first gear.

                  I'd be looking at 2.79's or maybe a 210mm 2.65.
                  Man, I'm just not sure why you're looking to be such a prick about these mounts.

                  As far as the gearing goes, I'm surprised to find out you're actually correct about something. I didn't notice the top table was showing km/h.
                  91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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                    #69
                    Getting way ahead of myself here, but I found this inspiration for my turbo piping on ls1tech and I think I'll end up running something like this with a flex pipe in there somewhere. Depends on if I can make my truck manifolds fit when flipped. Looks extremely simple to make, tucks nice.

                    https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...-4-2-13-a.html


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                    Last edited by DividedBeing; 02-13-2020, 09:49 PM.
                    91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by DividedBeing View Post

                      Man, I'm just not sure why you're looking to be such a prick about these mounts.

                      As far as the gearing goes, I'm surprised to find out you're actually correct about something. I didn't notice the top table was showing km/h.
                      Lol... I'm correct about the mounts, too... The fact that a small installed base hasn't had failures that you know about, YET does not mean they're well engineered.
                      After a bunch of years doing this stuff, it's obvious that when people tout something as the best and then it breaks... they don't tell the world that it broke. Happens all the time... with a long enough attention span, you hear about it months or years later.

                      And not for nothing do I get to write P.E. after my name in the real world.

                      ETA: And how TF is saying "They would be better if..." being a prick about something?

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                        #71
                        ETA: And how TF is saying "They would be better if..." being a prick about something?
                        Dude, it's all about your tone and the fact that you haven't been able to let it go.
                        Your sarcastic LOL's, "THE IRONY THAT...", etc. -- nawmsayin?

                        Advice and then a simple "Ok, man...it's your build. I'd probably do it different" after you're met with a disagreement is respectable.
                        Going on and on while acting like you know better than everybody else who purchased and uses these isn't quite as respectable.

                        On a side note, I appreciate your input on the Diff because I may not have even noticed I was reading the wrong chart without you saying something.
                        Hadn't really looked too deeply into final gearing until you asked and I was calculating it on a break from putting my motor back together.

                        But I need to warn you - your worst nightmare arrived today . I'm afraid to even go near them without more gusseting. I'm concerned they might explode and send shrapnel into my eyes.
                        As soon as the UPS truck came, I could tell the neighbors knew I had improperly gusseted mounts in the package. I saw them whispering to each other about calling the police..

                        NASA was contacted. I'm told engineers have been dispatched.

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                        Alex also hooked me up with an unpainted Wilwood Pedal Box Mount by Garagistic.
                        These fucking things are normally an unbelievable $600 from Garagistic. Dude picked it up on their black Friday sale
                        and gave it to me for $100.
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                        Last edited by DividedBeing; 02-14-2020, 01:37 PM.
                        91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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                          #72
                          So why the GS6-53BZ and not the T56? Reason I ask is I just noticed you are adding a turbo and first gear (4.055 vs 2.66 for T56) in the GS6-53BZ with 3:73ish gears are going to roast the tires (or diff). Is the GS6-53BZ smaller, lighter, more BMWer?

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                            #73
                            Originally posted by jbontke View Post
                            So why the GS6-53BZ and not the T56? Reason I ask is I just noticed you are adding a turbo and first gear (4.055 vs 2.66 for T56) in the GS6-53BZ with 3:73ish gears are going to roast the tires (or diff). Is the GS6-53BZ smaller, lighter, more BMWer?
                            So I'm going with the GS6-53BZ because it's $450 for the trans. If I blow it up, I go grab another one from LKQ for $450. If I blow up a T56, I get to pay another $2500.

                            I went down this route because I saw a lot of guys running a ZF320 with their LS and beating the hell out of it, but I wanted the 6 gears and have read good things about this trans.

                            So it's going to cost me the same up front, but replacability is a factor I'm going for. CD009 was my first choice, but it's going to be a major pain in the ass to shoehorn in and likely wouldn't line up well.

                            As far as the gearing goes, yeah, I was way off when I said 3.73 or 4.10 above -- I was reading the RPM to km/h chart like a dingus.

                            I'm likely going to pick up a 2.93 from Elysian

                            There's also the factor that I haven't seen a lot of other guys do it in their E30 LS Build, so I want to go for it and tread that ground so other people can see if it's worth it.
                            91 318i LS Swap In Progress - Build Thread

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                              #74
                              So I just spent a bit comparing various setups and different gearing. I'm thinking the 53BZ with the 2.79 looks good. The deep 6th of the T56 is definitely appealing though for longer drives.

                              GS6-53BZ with 2.79
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                              T56 With 4.10
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                              Last edited by DividedBeing; 02-14-2020, 05:26 PM.
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                                #75
                                Originally posted by DividedBeing View Post

                                NASA was contacted. I'm told engineers have been dispatched.

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                                Thank God. Finally. If they'd been involved from the get-go, the mount arms would have the right gussets on them. As they are, they're gusseted to keep the engine in place when crashing into things, which I guess is one of the main features of drifting.

                                Those are definitely nice stacks of dimes, but in actual structural welding, overlapping beads is a no-no because the extra stress the second weld puts into the material around the first bead sets the best conditions for a fatigue crack to form. That mount arm is probably ok, because the overlapped beads are "in the middle" and not subject to the highest stresses... but just because it's pretty doesn't mean it's good. The gusset that is there should have the inside corner hollowed out so the beads don't overlap.

                                It's not just these mount arms. I see sooooooo much stuff in the automotive aftermarket that is just silly from a structural perspective. It's especially evident in roll cages... If the builder doesn't follow some pretty easy design rules--and so many don't--the driver is still at risk no matter how pretty the welds are.

                                A few years back I saw a magazine article about a shop putting a C5 Corvette driveline and suspension under a '60's pickup truck body by building a custom frame. The frame was 4 members of mandrel bent steel tubes with laser cut shear panels in between to form two frame "rails". The problem was that the rails were basically flat and the structural section height couldn't have been more than 3 inches... so the fact that it was designed on a CAD workstation, cut with CNC equipment and welded with God's own TIG torch did not matter one bit because the design was hot garbage. No matter how well the builder built it, it was literally impossible for that frame to be anything but a spaghetti noodle... and yet the customer must have received a 5 figure invoice just for that.

                                You should spend some more time wrenching on your car so you build up some callouses and your skin isn't so thin.
                                Last edited by The Dark Side of Will; 02-14-2020, 08:10 PM.

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