Installed S50 injectors

[rwh11385]

What does your software do though? Most chips/software just change the timing to a more aggressive timing. Nothing is going to make the ECU flow more fuel except to increase the air into the engine.

Jay's car needed more fuel desperately with the stock injectors, they were begging for more.

Another mistake people are seeming to make alot is thinking that increasing the diameter of their AFM is going to make a difference. The AFM is not the bottle neck in these engines.

WTF crack pipe have you been smoking on??!?

It's just that there is a lot of misinformation out there in internet land.

Oh really......you don't say.......

Irony.

[nickmp0wer]

would it be possible to do this on an m42? it would make things easier if i make some itb's

[arsevader]

What does your software do though? Most chips/software just change the timing to a more aggressive timing. Nothing is going to make the ECU flow more fuel except to increase the air into the engine.

Jay's car needed more fuel desperately with the stock injectors, they were begging for more.

More than likely though this was because the stock injectors were old and were not up to the task.

What people generally do is these types of situations is replace old, extremely high mileage parts with new parts and suddenly they proclaim that the new parts are vastly superior. Nobody ever replaces old parts with the exact same spec new parts, tests them and then upgrades to see the difference.

Explain to me then why the ECU would be pumping more fuel in to the engine then. A rich engine doesn't make it a more powerful engine. The ECU will always try to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio no matter what.

As I said before, unless you are introducing more air into the engine then you aren't going to get more fuel into it. And until you address the intake restrictions this isn't going to happen.

Another mistake people are seeming to make alot is thinking that increasing the diameter of their AFM is going to make a difference. The AFM is not the bottle neck in these engines.

WTF crack pipe have you been smoking on??!?

A pretty decent one. ;)

But seriously are you trying to tell me that the AFM/throttle cannot provide enough air for the intake ports on these engines? No engineer that was half compitent would design an engine like that.

The intake ports/valves determine how much air car get into the engine, not the upstream components like the throttle body and the AFM. WHy do you think people go to super charged or turbo charged engines? Because this is the only sure fire way of getting more air in, thereby allowing the ECU to pump more fuel in.

It's just that there is a lot of misinformation out there in internet land.

Oh really......you don't say.......



Irony.

[Mystikal]

With the aggressive software I have in there now though, the more capable units are likely producing much more tangible results than if the chip was still stock.

What does your software do though? Most chips/software just change the timing to a more aggressive timing. Nothing is going to make the ECU flow more fuel except to increase the air into the engine.

This programming has a good amount more fuel than stock, to the point where the A/F graph on the dyno was dipping horribly at the 4000RPM point. The ECU would ask for more fuel, and the injectors balked at the request. While the stock ratio at WOT 5800RPM was around 12.8, with the chip it was way up at 14-15. Whether or not it could have been even worse as the ECU was dialing back air intake is unknown, but the basic fact is that the car was starving for fuel and this upgrade fixed it.

Also, mathematically, the stock injectors can only help produce 175-178hp. It's simple physics, they can't make any more.

[bmw13fr]

Also, mathematically, the stock injectors can only help produce 175-178hp. It's simple physics, they can't make any more.

you can increase the pressure of the pump !
so your injectors will make more power !

[King Luis]

Also, mathematically, the stock injectors can only help produce 175-178hp. It's simple physics, they can't make any more.

you can increase the pressure of the pump !
so your injectors will make more power !

but then you'll be overloading your stock injectors.

[Digitalwave]

Do you have any dyno charts or numbers for your car now Jay?

[e30 gangsta]

this thread rocks and it very informative. Now i gotta buy afm chip 173 ecu and injectors.

[Mystikal]

Do you have any dyno charts or numbers for your car now Jay?

Probably an entire day of tuning is being booked at the dyno with MarkD, hopefully I'll have info to post in a month or so.

[Budget Beater]

FYI - S50 and M50 injectors are the same, M52 S52 are also the same. m/s50 are 17lbs, M52-S52 are 21.5lb. Also the 17lb injectors max out roughly 270 crank HP. 21.5's good till 290-300, 24lbs good to 320-330ish. which M20 will NEVER hit so its all you'd ever need. what are stock ones BTW?


Just thought i'd let u know. i have a set sitting at home. gonna install. thanks for the informative post.

[Digitalwave]

Stock M20 injectors are 14.5#, and I believe M50/S50 are 17.5#.

[demlotcrew]

What you are seeing is probably more of an improvement from replacing tired dirty injectors with clean ones with the improved spray pattern.

You are right that the ECU doesn't know about the new injectors but it will try to maintain lambda. It will throttle back the injectors untill they are delivering the correct amount of fuel for your car.

You aren't introducing any more air into your engine so it would run rich if the ECU didn't do this. It's a good improvement over stock but not for the reason that most people think. You will probably see a slight fuel mileage improvement too.

James

Exactly!

Look at all the alpina hartge cars which made 200bhp + on stock AFM and injectors.

A

[parkerbink]

Anyone have any idea what these will do to emissions? I will eventually need to get my car smogged in CA.

How about mpg?

Thanks for the post Mystikal very helpful!

[Mystikal]

What you are seeing is probably more of an improvement from replacing tired dirty injectors with clean ones with the improved spray pattern.

You are right that the ECU doesn't know about the new injectors but it will try to maintain lambda. It will throttle back the injectors untill they are delivering the correct amount of fuel for your car.

You aren't introducing any more air into your engine so it would run rich if the ECU didn't do this. It's a good improvement over stock but not for the reason that most people think. You will probably see a slight fuel mileage improvement too.

James

Exactly!

Look at all the alpina hartge cars which made 200bhp + on stock AFM and injectors.

A

So, does every car over there have 100% efficient OE injectors? Didn't think so. All of the M20B25's people are modding have 100k+ miles on them, the stock injectors aren't delivering what they did when Alpina and Hartge gave a shit about E30s. So if you're going in there, you may as well install sprayers with slightly more capacity.

[demlotcrew]

All the M20 boys did this about two years ago and when the cars went on the rollers they were far too rich! Just like the M30 afm its a waste of time.

A