check out this m20

[Charlie]

There are 'better' ones out there, you just pay out the rear in many cases. The Ms is a 'work-in-progress" for sure.

250 bucks worth of parts plus hours of labor to build a mid 80's GM engine management system. Couple this with hundreds of hours to attempt to tune it to run anywhere near as well as stock. Which, frankly I have yet to see. For the money, I'd snag an SMT-6 piggyback, the maps are at least already out there and a good bit easier to work with.

My time is money, I don't see the point of spending the cash to be a guinea pig.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

And e30godz said modding for fun is cool (implying also that impractical mods are cool too), and I disagreed with him (meaning that impractical mods are worthless).

way to twist some words around.

correction.

i said modding for fun, is fun - regardless of the mod, if the owner has fun jewing his car up, its still fun for him yea? I didnt say that some kid isnt an idiot for hacking his springs and making side-pipes on his e30.

however, cool is subjective, i personally think stickers, wings and lights are pretty christian. i chose my words pretty carefully so i could avoid someone like you saying "OMG HE TINKS ALUMINUM WINGZ ARE COOL YO@!!!"

so i dont know where you're getting all this from...


i mean i dont even have a painted valve cover

From this:

That's completely counter intuitive, not to mention far from an ideal setup.

modding for fun is modding for fun.

i.e. non-ideal mods are cool and fun. (like cut springs would be, as they aren't such an ideal step but it's fun to do something to your car.....


......even if this subject and cut springs are no where close to one another)


Hence....mods that are done and don't really satsify a purpose....side-exit exhaust on a eta "project" track car........cut springs.....headlights painted tint are stupid.

If you aren't solving a problem, you're wasting time and money and that's dumb in my eyes.Hence, have a reason to do something and not just be doing something to do it. That's my philosophy.

[E30godz]

ive yet to see charlie prove that ITB's and turbocharging gives "far from an ideal setup"


like john said, GTR anyone?

if ITB's and a turbo is FAR from ideal, then i guess having AC on a turbocharged car would be FAR from ideal too, or even power windows and locks.


the IDEAL setup is also subjective, it could be ideal for him and not someone looking to get the drag-queen title out of an m20.

because its not damn perfect doesnt mean its not damn good.

so by your own words, someone cannot modify their car (asthetically or perfomance wise) for the shear joy of engineering and tinkering?

robert i know your saying that just tacking shit on to the car because you CAN is stupid, while i agree....i for one enjoy thinking of ideas for mods even when its not broke, maybe its just the engineer in me, i dont know.

[rwh11385]

like the first post of mine here, ITBs on a N/A I6 is cool.

however, if the ultimate goal is to turbocharge the car, the ITB seem an unneccessary step

[E30godz]

and you have lots of experiene with ITB's, turbocharging, and both of them combined to come to the conclusion that its an "unneccessary" step?

[rwh11385]

no? but how is pushing air with boost through 6 small throttle bodies going to be that much significantly better than one big one? It's being pushed through, unlike NA where one needs to find all the restrictions and solve them to get air drawn in.

[Charlie]

ive yet to see charlie prove that ITB's and turbocharging gives "far from an ideal setup"


like john said, GTR anyone?

if ITB's and a turbo is FAR from ideal, then i guess having AC on a turbocharged car would be FAR from ideal too, or even power windows and locks.


the IDEAL setup is also subjective, it could be ideal for him and not someone looking to get the drag-queen title out of an m20.

because its not damn perfect doesnt mean its not damn good.

so by your own words, someone cannot modify their car (asthetically or perfomance wise) for the shear joy of engineering and tinkering?

robert i know your saying that just tacking shit on to the car because you CAN is stupid, while i agree....i for one enjoy thinking of ideas for mods even when its not broke, maybe its just the engineer in me, i dont know.

Don't be a dumbass, you're acting very pedantic.

The purpose of an individual throttle body setup is to increase throttle response, any of this benefit is muted by a turbocharger and the subsequant lag. It's a lot of unecessary work and fab time for few, if any benefits in the end. You bring up a 75k japanese twin turbo car with a factory built setup and a wastegate as having "good response", for some reason I doubt that's the same as someone sticking some motorcycle throttles on a 20 year old engine with a junkyard turbo. Call me crazy.

The whole idea to me seems like eating steak with a spoon. I'm sure it can be done, and with enough work and time wasted, you might get good at it. But it would make a lot more sense to just use a fork and knife.

-Charlie

[E30godz]

yea, im acting pedantic when you two are basically shunning the idea as a whole because it "seems" unneccessary in your super astute turbocharging minds. please.


im pretty sure that having throttles 2 inches away from the cylinder intakes, even when turbocharged, is better than having one throttle a foot away that was designed for a NA engine. Its not like the air is not going to be moving until the boost kicks in.

While it may be a little over-engineering.....so? I dont think that ITB's are going to hurt its performance.

In my conversations with Mark Riley that runs Turbo Tune in greensboro, he noted that the M20 intake manifold design had its pros and cons when turbocharging.....he noted that the way it was designed, cylinder 6 and 1 will be running a bit lean while 3 and 4 will run a little richer. If anything this ITB setup could lead to a more complete combustion through out all cylinder because of a better AFR.

[E30godz]

no? but how is pushing air with boost through 6 small throttle bodies going to be that much significantly better than one big one? It's being pushed through, unlike NA where one needs to find all the restrictions and solve them to get air drawn in.

since when did significant gains have to do with anything? I'm not the one who said that it would be "FAR from the ideal setup".

[bmwdude]

not to mention he is going to turbocharge it!

That sounds like a typical "e30tech" idea.

"Durrr, I'se knows nuttin' 'bout motors, but I'se gonna tooorbo eeet"

Why would you go ITB if you're going to make an attempt at running FI? That's completely counter intuitive, not to mention far from an ideal setup.

-Charlie

Have you ever driven or ridden in a properly engineered M20 turbo?

If that is indeed a typical e30 tech.com idea, then what would a typical "r3vlimited" idea be?

[Charlie]

Have you ever driven or ridden in a properly engineered M20 turbo?

I've never seen a properly engineered e30 turbo.

I have seen a whole bunch of hackjob work though.

-Charlie

[Bimmerfanatik]

Seriously, this is just becoming a "nu-uh", "ya-huh" argument.

Until someone actually does it, will we really know if this is a benefit or gain? We can argue physics and theories until the damn cows come home, but it's not going to change the fact that he's going to try it and see what happens.

[rwh11385]

If that is indeed a typical "e30tech" idea, then what would a typical "r3vlimited" idea be?

PVC IC piping.....T25 turbo.....bald tires

[Charlie]

If that is indeed a typical "e30tech" idea, then what would a typical "r3vlimited" idea be?

PVC IC piping.....T25 turbo.....bald tires

Don't front with the e-ram.

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

I seriously had that in the my original post. But replaced it with the T25 because what's sure if people knew what I was talking about.

But that'd probably be the R3V thing to do