E30 ONLY double locks from drivers door

[hozzziii]

Hello
So as the title says, I have encountered an interesting problem with my double lock feature.
I have driven this car for 3 years now, and the previous owner was my father. The reason I mention that, is that he says the problem was present even when he was driving it. So it's been like this it seems for a few years now.

So the issue is, the car ONLY double locks, from the drivers door. The passenger door and trunk can "regular" lock the car fortunately pretty okay.
I have done some light reading on the matter, seems pretty common, but this issue is somewhat weird, as I haven't read anywhere of anyone encountered something like this.

Here are the links of some of the stuff I found that helped me understand how it all works:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e30/interior/door_locks/e30_central_lock_faq.html

This one was actually pretty good, it helped me somehow "rule out" other faults, as I will explain later.

https://www.diyland.eu/e30-central-locking-issues-2/

Also this one, was a good read, though I noticed some inconsistencies in there.
In general I just googled bmw e30 double lock, and just read what I could find.

Now on to, what I "think" might be the cause and how I came to the conclusion.
So I've noticed in the past few days, that the locking action felt really off, and felt like something was about to break.

So, I took the lock cylinder out, and sure enough, it was about to fall apart, cracked in 4 places! Luckily I had some old lock cylinders, so I salvaged some parts over, without changing the tumblers and all was good. I hoped fixing this would also solve the double lock problem as well, but it didn't.

So I read some more on the matter, especially that unofficialbmw page really shed some light.
It appears the drivers door lock attaches to this latch, that if you turn the lock 45 degrees apparently pushes down on a latch that goes in the lock assembly and that should push the motor down, and the motor has a LOCK switch inside, that regular locks the car. Then, it you turn the key another 45 degrees, you hit the "lock inhibit" switch, or just the double lock switch.

Now in order to confirm that I cannot lock the car regularly, the test is to disconnect the battery, and then see if I can just lock the drivers door. I did that test, and sure enough, I can't. I even turn the key even more, and I feel the spring turn to the double lock part, but that won't work because I disconnected the battery.

Also another problem I noticed during the test. The theory is that once you double lock, and leave the lock in the 90 degree position, you should not be able to unlock the car in any way: neither from pulling the drivers lock button, nor the passenger side, nor the trunk. But while the car is double locked, if I have the window down, I can pull the drivers lock button!! And open the door!!

So I think it's safe to say, there is a problem between the mechanical connection between the drivers door lock cylinder and the motor.

I'm not sure where to look for a problem in this situation, hence why I'm asking for help here.
Sorry for the long write, just wanted to give the context that I noticed the problem, also to rule out other faults.
Let me know what you think, thank you.

[hozzziii]

Also looking through the Bentley manual.
I found this "Phantom view" of the lock assembly, which paints a good picture but, I'm still not sure where is my problem.
Certainly a better view than looking through the holes in the door.
Side note: my car is a 4-door model. So the linkage right above the motor is like the one in mine.

[hozzziii]

Looking at that picture above, I am convinced that the Lock Assembly is at fault here.
Specifically that latch that comes out of the Lock Assembly, and hooks on to the Lock Cylinder.
I'm going to test this, I will remove the Cylinder, and see if I can move the latch by hand, see if it's too hard or not.
If it is too hard, I will probably remove the Lock Assembly, and I don't know, lubricate it? I don't know what I'm going to find in that.
But we'll see.

[rmdashrf]

I'm confused as to exactly the issue is (might be my quick read through tho).

The double lock only works from outside the driver door. Both my E30's where like that and the first link says the same:

"It also allows the car to be double-locked (from the driver's side key lock)"

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[hozzziii]

I'm confused as to exactly the issue is (might be my quick read through tho).

The double lock only works from outside the driver door. Both my E30's where like that and the first link says the same:

"It also allows the car to be double-locked (from the driver's side key lock)"

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Yes that is how the double lock is.
My issue is that it Only double locks from the driver's door, cannot lock regularly.

[hozzziii]

Welp. I tried, but no result.
I ripped everything out the door, except for the motors, that I didn't need.
I actually learned some good DIY-material experience. I don't know maybe some mods can tell me if it's good or not.

So, opened up the door, removed the door card, opened the moisture barrier halfway, then I removed the handle and the lock cylinder.
I couldn't reach inside to remove the hooks from Lock Assembly, So I decided to remove them out of the door. Remove the motor bolts, leave the motor hanging.
Then go outside the door, and remove the 3 big screws that hold the Lock Assembly down. These little shits, were screwed REALYYYYYYY tiight! I think I stretched both my forearms and almost messed up the pattern on one of them.
So, before removing the screws, remove the plastic tab that holds the door lever hook to the door, you could break this if you don't remove this now. Don't worry it wont drop, it is attached to the hook, not going anywhere. Then remove the screws, the Assembly drops to inside the door. Now if the hooks are still attached, you have to pivot the Assembly around the window regulator bottom port, imagine turning to your side in a tight spot, same thing.

So, with the Assembly out, I started to lube everything.


You can see 3 hooks in this picture.
The one to the right comes from door lever inside the car.
Bottom left attaches to the motor.
And the top one goes to the lock button.
VERY IMPORTANT
Notice the orientation of these hooks if you take them out, you don't have to, but it makes handling the Assembly easier. Put them back in the way you took them out, you can mess up the one that goes to the lock button. the one for the door lever only goes in one way, so not a big deal.
Also, if you want to test the locking and unlocking mechanism on the Assembly, be sure to slide your finger on the latch in the outside part, to "close" the lock. Otherwise it wont lock or unlock, it will behave as is the door is "open". Ask me how I know

So then I removed the hooks, and started to apply WD40 to the hinges, especially to that latch thing that hooks into the Lock Cylinder.



You can see these circle bits that stick out, these are the pivot points for the Assembly.
Also, see this little spring? That is the one responsible for spring loading the "Lock" and "Unlock" mechanism, cute little thing.


In this one we can see three pivot points in the Assembly.
Two at the top of the latch, one at 10 o'clock.


And here we can see how we can reach those pivot points, and lube them up.

I must say the whole Assembly after being lubed up, felt really good, I was confident that this would allow me to lock the car regularly.
I put the whole Assembly back in, and before putting the cylinder back in, tried to move the latch for the "Lock" part by hand, and it felt better smoother, I was happy with that.
But then I put the Cylinder in there, and still, nope, nothing.

The good thing here is that now I'm feeling confident that the Assembly is ok and lubricated. Also the Cylinder was about to fall apart, that's fixed too.
But I don't know, I'm stumped.

[Stanley Rockafella]

Yes that is how the double lock is.
My issue is that it Only double locks from the driver's door, cannot lock regularly.

Then it's simply an issue with the lock cylinder needing rebuilding.
BMW probably still sells the rebuild kit for it.
I had mine done to get the double lock feature working (regular worked fine).
Has worked flawlessly since.

[hozzziii]

Then it's simply an issue with the lock cylinder needing rebuilding.
BMW probably still sells the rebuild kit for it.
I had mine done to get the double lock feature working (regular worked fine).
Has worked flawlessly since.

Maybe so. I'd have to try it out I guess.

[hozzziii]

Well I've been giving this issue some thought.
My father, the previous owner said that he had changed the locks before, the reason I had a spare cylinder, and he said the car locked regularly for a short time, but then this issue popped up again.
So I thought, well the cylinder has to turn 30 degrees to push the latch down, and then turn another 60 degrees to hit that microswitch on the other side of it. ALSO let's not forget that my driver's door does not double lock, and reading from the links above, the driver's door double locks "mechanically" meaning the cylinder and the latch get in a position that's it's not possible to pull the button up, but my car doesn't.
So I'm thinking, maybe my lock has too much distance between the end of the cylinder and the latch, maybe because of being used up all these years. Maybe, if they were a little bit tighter, I could have the regular lock again.

And so I looked at my old broken "finger" at the end of the old cylinder.
You can see the damage it endured in all these years.
and I thought, what if the end part of this was a bit bigger? So that it could push on the latch a little sooner maybe? Could that fix it? How can I do that?





Then I drew this. I drew the shape of the end of the cylinder "finger", then I drew a bigger one around it, I imagined this would be a tighter fit in that latch.
Call it a, "bushing" if you will. I could go to a machine shop, make this out of aluminum, and slide it on my current Lock Cylinder, and try it out maybe.


Also side note, I'm considering a rebuild kit, but I'm spending my money fixing other issues with this car at the moment. So if all else fails, then yea I'll buy a rebuild kit.
Also I was thinking, what if, the end part of the cylinder, didn't turn? I would lose double lock, but I could gain the regular lock back... I prefer the regular lock, every time I double lock and the spring bounces back, it don't feel good to me.

[hozzziii]

Ok so I think I'm onto something here.
I decided to pop open the door, stick a camera in there, and see if I can understand the issue, while looking at the lock.
Excuse the orientation and shakiness of the video, I was holding my phone with one hand, while twisting the lock with the other.

First of all, you can see some aluminium foil on the Latch there, that was my first theory.
I thought maybe the Latch and the end of the Lock cylinder weren't connecting or "touching" properly. So I made this aluminium "sock" put it on the Latch, looked from the inside, it wasn't the issue.

If you pay attention to the spring at the tip of the Lock Cylinder, you can see that once the Cylinder and the Latch touch, the spring gives out too soon, before the Cylinder can push down the Latch.

Also, notice how after the spring gives out, the Latch goes back up again, I think this is the reason that the driver's door didn't double lock. It the UnofficialBMW link in the first post, it explains that the driver's double lock, is actually mechanical, meaning the it's the Cylinder that holds the Latch down, so this is why with the window down, and the car double locked and left in the 90 degree position, I could still pull up the lock button.

I think this is it, this is the problem right here.

Now it might be that I need a rebuild, but honestly a weak spring doesn't justify a rebuild kit imo.
I think what I'm going to do is either pull out the spring and strengthen it somehow, maybe weld it idk. Or, I'm going to pull out the spring, and put a thin nail in there, somehow, just to stop the Cylinder from giving out, and just push down the damn Latch.
Honestly I don't care about double lock.

[varg]

Are you using a fresh OE steel key or a copy? I ask because the copies I had cut of my mine will not lock my driver's door but the steel key will, I'm not sure if they will double lock it but I remember my lock being very hard to get out of the double lock position so I cannot try it and tell you if that's part of the issue. I think it has something to do with the shoulder of the key being cut wrong. My car had the same problem as yours, and I also couldn't lock the car by pushing the lock button down on the driver's side door with it open so I had to go to the passenger side to lock my car for the longest time. IIRC I just stopped trying to lock it with the key and removed the lock actuator so I could lock the driver side with the door open because I was fed up with it. I thought that a lock rebuild was the solution, but haven't done it because I hate working in the doors.

[hozzziii]

Are you using a fresh OE steel key or a copy? I ask because the copies I had cut of my mine will not lock my driver's door but the steel key will, I'm not sure if they will double lock it but I remember my lock being very hard to get out of the double lock position so I cannot try it and tell you if that's part of the issue. I think it has something to do with the shoulder of the key being cut wrong. My car had the same problem as yours, and I also couldn't lock the car by pushing the lock button down on the driver's side door with it open so I had to go to the passenger side to lock my car for the longest time. IIRC I just stopped trying to lock it with the key and removed the lock actuator so I could lock the driver side with the door open because I was fed up with it. I thought that a lock rebuild was the solution, but haven't done it because I hate working in the doors.

Well, I'm using an OE steel key, but not the one that came with my car. You see, as I mentioned above, my dad had changed the locks, I mean the whole assembly, front doors, glove box, trunk, and with it, came a steel key with the cute plastic end, a valet key and a spare key that you could fit in your wallet for trips. I have the old ones in a bag to this day, that's why I had a spare lock.
Interestingly, I had seen the link you provided, but I had not noticed the changed in the bearing type until I swapped the newer cylinder to the old original lock cylinder, just kept the key and the cylinder the same, but swapped all the broken parts and teeth and stuff. And my "newer" lock cylinder had the roller bearing! but it was broken in multiple places and wasn't salvageable. So I swapped to the old ball bearing type.

A few points I'd like to mention on your situation:

1. From what i understood from this assembly and how it works, if your key cannot lock the car from the driver's door, it sure won't double lock it either. But if it can, and your cylinder is ok and there's nothing wrong with the spring AND the switch is ok, it can double lock. You should definitely make a better copy and I think it will do the trick.
2. I'm not sure I follow with your solution here. By the lock actuator, do you mean the "Lock Assembly"? You can see what the parts are named in the picture I posted on #2. Or do you mean the "Locking Drive"/motor?
3. From the time I had with the whole Assembly out of the car (Post #6) I noticed the if I didn't slide the door latch inside (to simulate the door closed) I could "lock" the whole Assembly. there was something blocking the motion from inside the Assembly that I could not see. In the first and second picture of the post #6 you can see there is a piece of metal sticking out of the bit that two of the hooks go into, this piece stops the inner door handle from opening the door. But it's not what stops the button from going down. So I'm not sure I understand how you got the door to lock while it is open, I'm truly confused.

[unclelou87]

Have you managed to resolve this issue? I am having a similar issue that is different than everything i have been reading but most similar to yours (not exactly the same but close enough).
To start I have an 87 325is coupe.

Drivers Door.
- i am able to lock/unlock using key
- when i lock using key and window down, i can pull the lock button and unlock.
- when i turn the key past the first stage of locking and to the "lock all" position, i can hear the actuator by down by drivers foot click and sends a signal which locks the passenger door and the fuel cap. Trunk does not lock
- one thing to note: after removing the door card to determine the issue, i noticed the hook between the locking assembly and the locking drive is missing. This is odd because the drivers door still locks all when turned into second position. I tried to use a clothes hanger to pull on the locking drive but nothing happens. can't really push on it need a stronger hook.

Passenger Door.
- once the driver door is in double lock, i am not able to lock or unlock the passenger door (from the key cylinder, the lock button or pulling on inside or outside door handle)
- the only way i have been able to unlock the passenger door is to loosen the 2 bolts holding the locking drive at the bottom of the door. only at that point i am able to lock/unlock the passenger door... obviously something is wrong here because the locking drive is stuck in the lock position and i am over riding it by loosening up the two bolts.

Trunk. (which i believe may be the culprit here)
- key will not turn in the trunk key cylinder to lock or unlock
- only thing i can do is push the key cylinder to pop open the truck
- trunk does not lock when i double lock using drivers door

Fuel Lid.
- fuel lid locks when i double lock with drivers door
- fuel lid stuck shut since i cannot get the drivers door to unlock the rest of the car
- had to go through the trunk to unlock the fuel cap manually


Besides the missing hook on the drivers side door, there seems to be an issue with the unlocking feature. the double lock on the drivers door has activated the "lock all" but i still have not figured out which components are broken.

I plan on using this: http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e30/int..._lock_faq.html to do some testing on the actuators to ensure they are getting voltage.

Finally, i suspect the trunk lock cylinder is the main issue because it seems to be stuck can't lock or unlock. Odd since all E30 owners seem to use the trunk lock.
The second possibility is one of the actuators could be faulty and creating an open circuit which is not allowing me to unlock the passenger/door/fuelcap. but having said that it doesnt make sense sense i am able to lock everything centrally.

Looking for some help. or ideas.....


Thanks!

[Habbik]

OMG, your door problems seem too complicated to me. I see here many offered different advice regarding your problem. However, nobody thought this could be a simple lock issue that doesn't require so much attention and time. I suppose a skilled locksmith can easily fix the problem. Locksmith finsbury has an incredible team of locksmiths ready to work 24/7. They amazed me with their low prices and qualitative work.

[hozzziii]

Yeah I haven't fixed mine...
I'm gonna buy a driver's door lock and call it a day, not worth it to fiddle with the whole spring thing.