Brakes for an S52 Swap...

[moatilliatta]

Do ATE calipers offer better clearance?

What would bushings have to do with brake clearance?

I assume the rear is an ATE, you could check out the design differences

Solid pins firm up the brake pedal but require more maintenance
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/Caliper-Parts/BimmerWorld-Solid-Brake-Guide-Kit-Most-ATE-Calipers.html

[iansane]

I'm not clear on how you can be having clearance issues on stock brakes, and then solve that with Wilwoods.

The clearance issue isn't because the caliper is too wide and hits spokes like most, it's because the caliper carrier is very large down near the hub face. Moreso than a lot of cars for some reason. I have a set of Rota Grid wheels and a set of Rotiform wheels that the entire hub area was beefier (I presume to account for the many bolt patterns available) and interfered with my stock calipers. Both were supposed to fit. I grabbed a Wilwood setup from Massive and gained a bunch of space because the caliper body is similarly sized but it's moved up and out radially.

[iXBeater]

What about just going ATE calipers with solid bushings?

Do ATE calipers offer better clearance?

What would bushings have to do with brake clearance?

[moatilliatta]

What about just going ATE calipers with solid bushings?

[iXBeater]

Looking at how tiny that hub is does not make me love the idea of spacers. at. all.

[iXBeater]

If anything, I wouldn't trust the thinner spacers, because of the issue with the existing hub.
Smallest that can work with the existing hub while having their own separate lip are 10mm(?).

I have a set of 5mm spacers on the front of my E30 with an interesting taper to allow the wheels to center even though the lip of the hub is obscured.
But AFAIK they are NLA. Haven't seen the same design from another spacer manufacturer.
https://assets.ecstuning.com/product...9992_x800.webp

It seems like the H&R spacers have something like that. I'm kicking around the idea of 3mm or 5mm, but I lost comfort quickly beyond that. If they're necessary beyond that, I'm just going to send back the wheels to Tire Rack and get wheels that do work. (That's assuming the brake solution isn't going to work either, which I'm quickly losing faith in...)

FWIW I have 20mm spacers on the rear of my E30 with 20mm longer lug nuts and haven't had any issues.
Haven't seen any track time yet, but I plan to stretch it's legs there eventually.

Once you get to 25mm they have a separate set of lug bolts go into the hub and studs to bolt on your wheels.

I'm not getting anywhere close to 20mm.


All this makes me wonder if the H&R coilovers Mike installed changed the geometry here somehow. The guy I ordered with at Tire Rack immediately said no, but...

[Panici]

If better pads and 3mm or 5mm spacer works, I'd probably live fine with that. The H&R spacers for this application seem to require that the existing hub flange still work for the wheels, which doesn't excite me. I'd definitely get longer bolts. I really (really) hate the idea of a spacer much bigger than 5mm...)

If anything, I wouldn't trust the thinner spacers, because of the issue with the existing hub.
Smallest that can work with the existing hub while having their own separate lip are 10mm(?).

I have a set of 5mm spacers on the front of my E30 with an interesting taper to allow the wheels to center even though the lip of the hub is obscured.
But AFAIK they are NLA. Haven't seen the same design from another spacer manufacturer.
https://assets.ecstuning.com/product...9992_x800.webp

FWIW I have 20mm spacers on the rear of my E30 with 20mm longer lug nuts and haven't had any issues.
Haven't seen any track time yet, but I plan to stretch it's legs there eventually.

Once you get to 25mm they have a separate set of lug bolts go into the hub and studs to bolt on your wheels.

[hoveringuy]

Is the car an Ix?

I'm not clear on how you can be having clearance issues on stock brakes, and then solve that with Wilwoods.

I can run exactly one wheel over mine

[iXBeater]

I agree with Panici on this, unless you're going to be tracking then stock brakes with grabbier pads is fine. I even tracked mine that way for several years, the real motivation for me to change to BBK was more to do with constantly changing rotors because I'd crack them so fast more than stopping power, but that's more of a track issue.

Also consider the Mk60 ABS. The stock ABS "works" but the newer system will make the existing brakes seem twice as big.

I don't have ABS on this car.

I get the idea of more aggressive pads on the stock setup, but I'm trying to solve two problems: So-so brake performance and wheel clearance. I'm suggesting that if I'm going to slap new pads/rotors on the car, I'd rather solve the clearance issues I have with the 4-pot Wilwoods (if possible).

[hoveringuy]

I agree with Panici on this, unless you're going to be tracking then stock brakes with grabbier pads is fine. I even tracked mine that way for several years, the real motivation for me to change to BBK was more to do with constantly changing rotors because I'd crack them so fast more than stopping power, but that's more of a track issue.

Also consider the Mk60 ABS. The stock ABS "works" but the newer system will make the existing brakes seem twice as big.

[iXBeater]

I personally wouldn't be looking at a BBK for just occasional track use with a stock S52.
Unless you're hunting for better lap times, it's just not needed IMO.

You'll be way better off with some active brake cooling and better pads.

As far as wheel spacers, just stick with a reputable brand, use hubcentric + lugcentric spacers, and appropriately extended length lug bolts. Doesn't hurt to check the torque between track sessions if you're paranoid, but I have never had one loosen up, installed dry, with new hardware.

If better pads and 3mm or 5mm spacer works, I'd probably live fine with that. The H&R spacers for this application seem to require that the existing hub flange still work for the wheels, which doesn't excite me. I'd definitely get longer bolts. I really (really) hate the idea of a spacer much bigger than 5mm...)

If it's just feel you're after, it might be an issue with the booster in your setup. What are you running with the 24v swap to clear the intake manifold?

I like the E83 X3 Brake Booster paired with a manual rear bias valve in my E30.
It has a little more assist so inspires confidence, and I can modulate it well enough to get the tires howling without locking up (no ABS equipped).
Running Stoptech street performance pads just for reference; I don't know if they've changed the compound in the 10ish years since I got my set.

I've got the Porsche 968 (?) brake booster folks do for an S52 swap. (I don't have ABS either)w if they've changed the compound in the 10ish years since I got my set.[/QUOTE]

[Panici]

I personally wouldn't be looking at a BBK for just occasional track use with a stock S52.
Unless you're hunting for better lap times, it's just not needed IMO.

You'll be way better off with some active brake cooling and better pads.

As far as wheel spacers, just stick with a reputable brand, use hubcentric + lugcentric spacers, and appropriately extended length lug bolts. Doesn't hurt to check the torque between track sessions if you're paranoid, but I have never had one loosen up, installed dry, with new hardware.

----------------

If it's just feel you're after, it might be an issue with the booster in your setup. What are you running with the 24v swap to clear the intake manifold?

I like the E83 X3 Brake Booster paired with a manual rear bias valve in my E30.
It has a little more assist so inspires confidence, and I can modulate it well enough to get the tires howling without locking up (no ABS equipped).
Running Stoptech street performance pads just for reference; I don't know if they've changed the compound in the 10ish years since I got my set.

[iXBeater]

Your pads probably are crap.

You're probably right.

But for bigger brake kit check out Massive Brakes. Probably have to PM Lee on Facebook and let him know what you are looking for.

I don't really want "bigger" so much as "better with better wheel clearance for 15" wheels"

[moatilliatta]

Your pads probably are crap.

But for bigger brake kit check out Massive Brakes. Probably have to PM Lee on Facebook and let him know what you are looking for.

[iXBeater]

Completely agree the e36 is an easier car to drive and more confidence inspiring over an e30. Have you tried any different pad options? The daily driver pads like Textar, Jurid, etc. were pretty lackluster for any sporty driving. I've used Hawk HP plus as an autocross pad before which has good bite once warmed up, but dusts like crazy and quite noisy on the street if that bothers you. Eventually I settled on PFC 08 and while a little noisy they were good on track and even worked alright on the street without too much trouble. It seems that all the cool dished vintage wheels wheels work easiest with the stock brakes (ran into the this with my 15x7.5 Ronal LS when looking for bigger brakes that would fit) and the BBK setups often require more modern wheels for additional clearance.

My logic is that instead of putting money into the pads and rotors, use that money toward geiting pads/rotors and the new calipers (looks like most pad/rotor combos are somewhere between $250 and $350).