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New rear adjustable Camber/Toe design.

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    #31
    I installed these on my E30 and had a few issues. First, because I want more camber, anything above the original hole is wasted so I ended up cutting the welded on part down, just to be sure it would not interfere with the chassis. Second, the bolts were too long on the outer adjustments (toe) and were hitting the subframe so I cut them down too.

    I feel that these tabs are way too long in that, unless you are running some pretty flexible bushings, your trailing arm bushings can't flex enough to take advantage of the adjustment range. I am using 75D bushings so my range is quite limited. To align the toe, I used a carpenters clamp to pull the trailing arm forward enough to get the toe to zero. I use a laser to the front wheel to check the toe. Fortunately, the toe doesn't change when the wheel is lowered as the car is raised on the lift.

    I'm not worried about the teeth failing. The forces are spread out over a large area and the loads on these isn't that great compared to the strength of the plates.

    One tricky bit is getting the outer plates square when you tighten things up. It takes a bit of finessing so if you are going to let a garage do your alignment, get someone who is competent.
    sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

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      #32
      Just installed this kit and am also using 75D bushings. I had no issue moving the adjusters while the subframe was out, so I hope the shop doesn't have any problems aligning it.

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        #33
        Originally posted by CoClimber View Post

        I'm not worried about the teeth failing. The forces are spread out over a large area and the loads on these isn't that great compared to the strength of the plates.
        I agree. Serrations like these are used in aerospace parts all the time for adjustability. As long as they are torqued down and cannot wiggle, they will be very strong.

        1987 Alpinwei├č 325is

        Like the PNW E30 Local Crew Facebook page

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          #34
          I noticed the one write-up on this method shows that they machined out a portion of the tab so that the inner portion is on the same plane as the subframe:
          http://dtrperformance.com/wpg2-2?g2_itemId=734

          Is this the best way to do it?
          Rather then add on some more steel to the back of the tab?

          I'd be interested to hear what someone at Ireland has to say...

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            #35
            I have a data point for the new serrated adjusters. The toe bolts can loosen in a track session! So in my opinion the new plates have no real advantage over eccentrics. Granted it is just one sample, but one sample is enough. If you want the settings to stick something must be done to prevent the bolts from turning once adjusted.
            The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
            Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

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              #36
              Originally posted by jlevie View Post
              I have a data point for the new serrated adjusters. The toe bolts can loosen in a track session! So in my opinion the new plates have no real advantage over eccentrics. Granted it is just one sample, but one sample is enough. If you want the settings to stick something must be done to prevent the bolts from turning once adjusted.


              Jim, I'm sorry but it's a little hard to take this seriously when there are many other people who are racing without them coming loose. These datapoints would appear to be contradictory to your single example. I'm assuming this is not your car, so if you talk to whoever it was that had this happen, then simply have him call (as I've originally requested to anyone who runs into any issue) and I can have a better understanding of what happened directly from the source.

              This is one of those things in where the typing on the internet is not a very good substitute to an actual phone conversation.
              ADAMS Autosport

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                #37
                Right now I only know of one car with the serrated adjusters (just installed). The first time the car went on track with those a routine check found the toe adjuster bolts had loosened. They hadn't loosened enough for the plates to move, but if that had not been caught they might have. Granted, that was a single sample, but it was exactly what I expected could happen.

                I have personal knowledge of six cars that have had problems with eccentric toe adjusters loosening and moving. There are some folks that haven't reported problems, but there are a fair number that have experienced the problem. At least some of the folks I know that haven't had problems have welded the eccentric affixed to the bolt to bracket/plate.

                My theory is that fairly large rotational forces can be applied to the outboard adjusters. The fore/aft forces from acceleration and braking are concentrated on the outboard bushings and when that is coupled with suspension deflections you can get significant torque applied to the adjuster bolts if the bushing sleeve moves with the bushing. The only thing that restrains the bushing sleeve is the end surface area and clamping force. And there is very little surface are in contact with the adjuster slots being in the brackets. So it will tend to want to rotate.

                A form of proof for this theory is that once I fabricated and installed bolt locks on the toe adjusters the problem went away. And I know of one other person that solved it in a similar manner.

                The serrated plate adjusters look to be an improvement over the eccentric adjusters. But I am of the opinion that a means of locking the bolts is needed for a complete solution.
                The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
                Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

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                  #38
                  Do you think you would even need the raised subframe bushings with this kit? Just saw this thread after i ordered my rear subframe bushings to raise the rear 9mm. I have the 12mm kit on my track car with the old design and it's a pain to adjust the out side adjustment.

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                    #39
                    I just installed a set of these and have a little feedback.

                    I like the overall design but I have a few points to put forward.

                    The brackets are unnecessarily too long in (length) adjustment range. They could be shortened up quite a bit. It would make for a cleaner installation.

                    The bolts where too long by quite abit. I had to not only trim the subframe bushing (AKG), I also had to put 2 washers (10mm) on each bolt. This left roughly 5mm of thread extending past the adjuster. So you could use a 10mm shorter bolt in the kit.

                    I think the teeth could be courser. I found I had to fiddle with the locks so that the teeth would stay engaged as I tightened the bolts. If you don't get the teeth to engage properly the teeth would get chewed up quickly if tightened down offset.

                    I do not believe myself that such a fine adjustment is needed. The difference between 2.5* and 2.6* (degrees) is of no real world advantage. So a larger tooth would be easier to work with and would still give wide latitude in adjustment range.

                    This is more of a correction kit then a total adjustment kit. You can only move the camber side down so far. the bracket hits the subframe and only allows a very small amount of downward slotting needed for getting maximum negative camber.

                    Since a there are a fairly large amount of racers out there that want -3.5*-4* of negative camber this might be a issue. For the street guys with slammed ride heights, this will totally give you the adjustment to back off camber to a more acceptable tire wear status.

                    As a note the car installed on was on sport springs so ride height was not that low in comparison with coil overs/race springs. At this humble ride height we where only able to get a max of -2* camber. It was set at 1.5* as it is a mellow daily driver and tire wear is more important then track grip.

                    Toe settings where not an issue as there is insanely more then enough room to go either way.

                    We where able to get 60ft lbs on the bolts when final tightening. I do have to say it felt that any more and it would be likely to strip. I did hear (rumor) there where some early kits that where not heat-treated.

                    All in all a great upgrade over the old style eccentric bolt setup. I was able to complete the rear alignment (camber/toe) in about 30 minutes. Much more user friendly then the old style.

                    Remember when welding them in to make sure you have adjustment in 'both' directions. Otherwise you will have correction only and no adjustment in the other direction should you ever need it. Although this is solely to the discretion of the end user.

                    All in all I give the IE V2 Adjustment Kit a 7 of 10 stars.

                    Enjoy.
                    www.facebook.com/E30motorwerks

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by RobertC View Post
                      This is more of a correction kit then a total adjustment kit. You can only move the camber side down so far. the bracket hits the subframe and only allows a very small amount of downward slotting needed for getting maximum negative camber.

                      Since a there are a fairly large amount of racers out there that want -3.5*-4* of negative camber this might be a issue. For the street guys with slammed ride heights, this will totally give you the adjustment to back off camber to a more acceptable tire wear status.
                      Using the eccentric adjusters I mod them the push the camber range higher by taking a bit off the bottom of the plates. But even then I can't get as much rear camber (3deg) as I want because the trailing arm hits the subframe. There is a fix for that. Set the camber adjustments at the max then take the car to a frame shop and have them bend the arms to 4-4.5deg of camber.
                      The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
                      Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

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                        #41
                        Just got my kits in the mail. Dropped my subframe off at TC Design I will take pictures and post my review after i'm done. I'm replacing the eccentric adjusters with this new style.

                        http://www.tcdesignfab.com/

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                          #42
                          Jim @ Precision Chassis Works sent these pictures over this morning.

                          The car races in NASA's GTS class and he thought it would be prudent to box them in given the setup they were going for. This is a good example of how to properly box them in.





                          The point where one should box them in is a sliding scale and just requires some common sense. Generally if adjustment bolt is going to sit passed the edge of the original tab then its probably a good idea to box'em in.
                          ADAMS Autosport

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                            #43
                            I haven't been around much but just reread this thread. I also had a failure with the toe adjustment coming loose. Unfortunately, it did so coming into turn two at Watkins Glen. Yikes! That woke me up!

                            I suspect the problem might have been that one of the plates rotated slightly when I tightened it down. If that was the case, it could have rotated back into position, which would have caused the bolt to be looser. (I hope I'm making sense). It is very hard to inspect the outer plate even when it is on a lift.

                            Before the next season begins I plan to remove the subframe and devise a way to prevent the outer plates from rotating, probably with a guide plate welded to the side of the outer plates. I also have some ideas on how to make adjusters so that you can loosen the bolt then turn an adjusting bolt to change your toe or camber. Right now it is a real PITA to make adjustments.

                            I'll post photos of what I come up with.
                            sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

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                              #44
                              I know with the adjusting of the normal eccentric washer design it is EASY to adjust with a jack and some stands. This looks like a two man job to hold and adjust. I was going to mention boxing them in to avoid bending at higher adjustment. Your guy did a great job, I boxed in my e30Tech kit.

                              I am going to pick up this kit for my brother this summer when I adjust his vert. I wanna try these out, I really REALLY love the tooth idea. Only issue I see is adjustment(not that big of a problem). Nice job offering something new.
                              ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

                              Instagram: @BWeissLeather

                              Current cars:
                              ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
                              ~ '87 535
                              ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
                              ~ '06 X5 4.8is

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                                #45
                                Yo, F34R. When it's time to adjust these on your brother's car, if you want to drive up to Ithaca, we can do it at my place. The lift makes life so much better.
                                sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

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