CAB lollipop bolt snapped-off inside frame - HELP!

[mxtx]

Changing my Control Arms & Bushings (CAB) and there's a total of 4 bolts that hold the Wishbone Bracket that hold the Bushings (Lollipops) to the lower frame rails.

Had problems with the lollipop bolts and now I could use some advice before making things any worse. Please help! Thanks.

Driver side #1: Removed without problem.
Driver side #2: Bolt head snapped! Luckily, there was still a stud protrusion. Welded on a nut and was able to extract the stud. Thank god.

Passenger side #1: Found out someone had snapped it previously. Guess I've been driving like this since I got this car over a year ago.
No stud protrusion to weld to here. Stud is broken up inside the frame rail. YIKES.
Passenger side #2: Won't budge. Used small breaker bar but afraid to go too hard and end up snapping it too.
Do I just grind the bolt head on purpose so as not to risk snapping it inside the frame and guarantee having a protrusion to weld on and extract?

I know I can try to be super careful, maybe even use a drill bushing or start with a very small bit so I can center it as best I can, then maybe try and EZ-Out or reverse drill bit but no matter what I know I run the risk of it still not coming out or having the EZ Out stuck in there too.

I really don't have the means to go in from the top side and cut any sheet metal or anything, and that's what I'm afraid of since my experience drilling out a stripped bolt is very beginner and it just feels so risky because it's in the frame rail. I've read through a few other similar situations but hoping for some new info and possible something more manageable for my skill level.

Anything is appreciated, big thanks.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Hit the one that wont budge with some good penetrating oil and let it sit over night and see if a good impact cant zip it out. For the one thats broke off your likely gonna have to drill out and tap it to a bigger size. Also heat is your friend. Heating it up might help

[nando]

Use an impact. It will be able to get it free without breaking the bolt off. The problem with a breaker bar is you apply a constant force to the bolt shank, which eventually will reach the steel's yield point and the head shears off. That basically can't happen with an impact gun.

[mxtx]

my impact sucks - electric dewalt.

don't think my air compressor is strong enough to drive a more powerful air impact?
3.10 CFM @ 40 PSI & 2.20 CFM @ 90 PSI / 120 PSI Maximum Pressure

what do you guys have? proper impact is a good idea would take any suggestions. along with heat and pb blaster i can keep trying this for the stuck bolt.

as for the broken bolt, when you say tap it to a larger size you mean drill a bigger hole in the frame and then drill a bigger hole in the lollipop? not sure if im ready or have the conifidence to modify the frame like that just yet but going to think on that.

thanks guys.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

CAB lollipop bolt snapped-off inside frame - HELP!

my impact sucks - electric dewalt.

don't think my air compressor is strong enough to drive a more powerful air impact?
3.10 CFM @ 40 PSI & 2.20 CFM @ 90 PSI / 120 PSI Maximum Pressure

what do you guys have? proper impact is a good idea would take any suggestions. along with heat and pb blaster i can keep trying this for the stuck bolt.

as for the broken bolt, when you say tap it to a larger size you mean drill a bigger hole in the frame and then drill a bigger hole in the lollipop? not sure if im ready or have the conifidence to modify the frame like that just yet but going to think on that.

thanks guys.

Yes drill it to a bigger hole and then re thread that hole for a bigger bolt. As for a good impact you can go air but need a decent compressor i think most say minimum of 20-30 gallon. I use cordless tools because i don't have room for a big compressor yet. A good cordless impact is a Milwaukee m18 fuel or just the regular m18. They have an initial impact of 900 ftlbs and 1100 ftlbs and drops down to about 600

[nando]

the threaded part is basically just a nut welded to the inside of the frame - personally, I would try everything to remove the stud without messing with the threads on that, you could end up with a nightmare frame rail repair.

maybe you could rent or borrow a bigger impact? I think that's your best bet to avoid shearing off the second bolt. Definitely some heat and PB blaster too..

[parkerbink]

Unless you have other vehicles I'd deal with the broken one first, if you break the remaining bolt you won't be able to drive the car. (not that you should drive it too far now that you know)

[ForcedFirebird]

I see this often in the shop. Nando is correct, impacts are far less likely to snap them off (a powerful one with rip a 12mm thread in half without breaking a sweat tho). If you know a bolt has been on there a long time and might be seized, hit them on the head with a hammer to shock the rust, then use penetrant.

But now that it's broken, try drilling into what's left - if you are lucky the drill will thread it into the frame rail. Don't go for an oversized bolt, use a TimeSert (preferably) or Helicoil.

[MrBurgundy]

These work well. You can drill a hole in the broken stud, PB blast it, let it sit, drive one of these in and it will grab the inside as you loosen it.


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[ThatOneEuroE30]

I should mention snap on makes a this that could possible pull it out

https://store.snapon.com/Combination-Extractor-Sets-19-pc-Extractor-Set-Blue-Point--P630634.aspx

[mxtx]

great info - thanks guys.

after reading suggestions i think im most comfortable with this plan based on my experience and how much risk i want to take with changing/ruining the actual frame:

1. use drill bushing and small bit to begin a centered hole in the stud as best as possible, moving up the bit size in increments.

2. apply lots of heat and lots of pb blast.

3. use "tight clearance" extractor to try and remove. my garage is remote so i don't remember exact size. is that hole/stud an M10 or an M12? https://www.mcmaster.com/#57195a514/=17n77vt

4. pray.

for the bolt that won't budge i will:

1. invest in high-torque cordless impact. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee...21XC/301099969

2. apply lots of heat and lots of pb blast.

3. pray.

s/o to everyone.

[sampayne]

Same thing happened to my buddy on his car. Broke a drill bit in one of the studs and then broke an ez out in the other. total bummer :/

If you know a bolt has been on there a long time and might be seized, hit them on the head with a hammer to shock the rust, then use penetrant.

+1 for hammer trick. I snapped a bunch of exhaust studs off of my head and thought I had tried everything, heat, pb blaster, ect. Then I finally tapped them with a hammer and they came right out after a little persuasion.

Good luck.

[mxtx]

hammer, right – noted.

anyone remember if M10 or M12 so i can order my extractor before my next trip to the garage?

thanks.

UPDATE: realoem lists the bolt as M10x40 gonna go with that

[Seawolf]

For the bolt that's already broken you could drill and tap a left hand thread into the bolt remains, use a grade 8 left hand bolt screwed in to the threaded broken bolt shaft and hit it with your new impact gun.

[f4tj0n]

I would buy a nice set of reverse drill bits. Dot punch it as center as possible and start with a small bit, and move on up.. I've had very good luck with my reverse drill bits when I broke all four of the front subframe bolts into the frame. Don't ask me how I did that...

Also, try some heat on the bolt that isn't broken.