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MRT Bump Steer/Roll Center Correction Effect on Steering

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    MRT Bump Steer/Roll Center Correction Effect on Steering

    Has anyone installed the MRT Bump Steer/Roll Center Correction with an E46 rack or Z3 rack? If so how does it feel on the street? Is it twitchy on the highway/interstate?

    I am looking to correct my bump steer and roll center from lowering my car, but do not care for the 30% increase in steering angle/shortening of the steering ratio. I know they have a kit where it does not increase the steering angle/ratio, but I do not want to install heim joints on a primarily street driven car.

    From looking online it looks like the following cars have the following steering ratios:
    E30 Rack = 20.5:1
    95 E36 M3 Rack = 17.6:1
    E36/Z3M Rack = 15.6:1
    E46 M3 Rack = 15.4:1
    E46 M3 CSL/ZCP Rack = 14.5:1
    Z3 non M Rack = 13.9:1
    E46 rack = 13.7:1

    I know these steering ratios are dependent on the steering knuckle geometry for the front spindle, so I found some other specs on rotations and mm of rack travel.

    Bimmerforums is the preferred online BMW Forum and community for BMW owners. At Bimmerforums, you will find technical how-to information maintenance specifics audio advice wheel and tire combinations and model specific details not found anywhere else. Our professionals are here to help make sure you find the answers you need to your questions and our community is here to help other brainstorm ideas for the future.

    I see a lot of misinformation regarding steering modifications being passed around Facebook groups and forums almost daily, so I’ve decided to put together this information thread to correct the many misconceptions, and to compile a comprehensive database for steering rack swaps and power steering modifications. The

    Rack..................mm/rev.............lock-to-lock.....Travel (mm).... new mm/rev...... new travel(mm)
    E30 (stock)..........36mm....................3.9...... .......140.4 .............. 46.8................182.5
    E30 M3................38mm....................3.5..... ........133.0 .............. 49.4................172.9
    E36 M3 (1995)......46mm....................3.25.......... 149.5 .............. 59.8................194.4
    E36/7 Z3..............48mm....................2.7....... ......129.6 .............. 62.4................168.5

    Z3 1.9L................53.5mm..................2.7... .... ....144.5.............. 69.6................187.9
    E46.......................50mm...................3 ................150 ................ 65................195
    E46 M3.................47mm..................3.2...... .........150 .............. 61.1..............195
    E46 M3 ZCP.........50mm...................3.............. ....150.............. 65..................195
    Z4M......................50mm..................2.8 ................140​.............. 65..................182


    #2
    I am also interested in bumpsteer correction for a street e30 that is lowered but not drastically low with z3 rack as well.

    I am changing to a e46 purple tag rack as the z3 rack is shagged. I built a jig to measure bumpsteer to be scientific but yet to use it.

    I am not sure I am low enough to need the roll centre correction but I do feel bump steer on the bad roads here so I personally favour just the bumpsteer correction. I don’t like the lack of boots but I may try and fit some of the bump steer only kits. I am also planning to check the rack spacers (if possible) to see if some improvement can be had without anything fancy.

    Why do you need one? When lowering your car (BMW E30 / E36 / E46 etc.) the front end geometry goes wrong. The main purpose of the kit is to correct these geometry issues.The extended mounting stud changes control arm pivot point vertical distance by 20mm correcting the roll-center and camber curve. Tie rod end pivot point is also changed by 20mm in vertical direction which corrects the bump steer curve. Does it fit my car? The kit can be combined with most of the E30 / E36 / E46 control arms and knuckles/spindles. See available variations: Outer joint size: 41mm (E30 non-M / E36 M3) 48.5mm (E36 non-M / E46 M-Sport / E46 aftermarket) 50mm (E46 OEM factory) 33mm (E46 M3 / Z4M) thread tool included ** Spindle/knuckle: E30 non-M E36 / Z3 non-M E36 M3 3.0 E36 M3 3.2 / Z3M E46 / Z4 non-M E46 M3 / Z4M Is it easy to install? The kit comes with instructions, if you know how to change a control arm or an outer joint, installing this kit is basically not any harder. You'll need a press for removing the old outer joint and installing the new outer joint, no other special tools needed. If you need any further info please contact us! How about the lifetime and service of the kit? The kits have been proven on street and track applications by hundreds of our customers. We're constantly doing R&D to make the kits even better, all improvements are based on customer feedback which is very important to us.We have proven the very same bearings with no maintenance for 20,000 kilometers, through the year, in daily use without signs of excessive wear. When the bearing life comes to an end, they're easily replaceable! Bearings are available around the world from automotive and industrial dealers and any of the spare parts can be also bought separately from us. We want to keep our customers 100% happy thus we're only using the best materials and manufacturing processes available. All parts are CNC machined: aluminum parts are aerospace grade AW-7075 with hard anodized finish (silver and black), mounting studs are made of highest quality CrMo tool steel and small spacers/adapters used on the kits are 316L stainless steel. We use DHL Express shipping for all items. Please find your order tracking information from DHL website.


    I will probably try these and measure to see if there is improvement

    Sometimes I wish I just bit the bullet and got the e30 m3 struts as a simple spacer will do the same thing with OEM CA and tie rod.
    89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

    new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by digger View Post
      I am also interested in bumpsteer correction for a street e30 that is lowered but not drastically low with z3 rack as well.

      I am changing to a e46 purple tag rack as the z3 rack is shagged. I built a jig to measure bumpsteer to be scientific but yet to use it.

      I am not sure I am low enough to need the roll centre correction but I do feel bump steer on the bad roads here so I personally favour just the bumpsteer correction. I don’t like the lack of boots but I may try and fit some of the bump steer only kits. I am also planning to check the rack spacers (if possible) to see if some improvement can be had without anything fancy.

      Why do you need one? When lowering your car (BMW E30 / E36 / E46 etc.) the front end geometry goes wrong. The main purpose of the kit is to correct these geometry issues.The extended mounting stud changes control arm pivot point vertical distance by 20mm correcting the roll-center and camber curve. Tie rod end pivot point is also changed by 20mm in vertical direction which corrects the bump steer curve. Does it fit my car? The kit can be combined with most of the E30 / E36 / E46 control arms and knuckles/spindles. See available variations: Outer joint size: 41mm (E30 non-M / E36 M3) 48.5mm (E36 non-M / E46 M-Sport / E46 aftermarket) 50mm (E46 OEM factory) 33mm (E46 M3 / Z4M) thread tool included ** Spindle/knuckle: E30 non-M E36 / Z3 non-M E36 M3 3.0 E36 M3 3.2 / Z3M E46 / Z4 non-M E46 M3 / Z4M Is it easy to install? The kit comes with instructions, if you know how to change a control arm or an outer joint, installing this kit is basically not any harder. You'll need a press for removing the old outer joint and installing the new outer joint, no other special tools needed. If you need any further info please contact us! How about the lifetime and service of the kit? The kits have been proven on street and track applications by hundreds of our customers. We're constantly doing R&D to make the kits even better, all improvements are based on customer feedback which is very important to us.We have proven the very same bearings with no maintenance for 20,000 kilometers, through the year, in daily use without signs of excessive wear. When the bearing life comes to an end, they're easily replaceable! Bearings are available around the world from automotive and industrial dealers and any of the spare parts can be also bought separately from us. We want to keep our customers 100% happy thus we're only using the best materials and manufacturing processes available. All parts are CNC machined: aluminum parts are aerospace grade AW-7075 with hard anodized finish (silver and black), mounting studs are made of highest quality CrMo tool steel and small spacers/adapters used on the kits are 316L stainless steel. We use DHL Express shipping for all items. Please find your order tracking information from DHL website.


      I will probably try these and measure to see if there is improvement

      Sometimes I wish I just bit the bullet and got the e30 m3 struts as a simple spacer will do the same thing with OEM CA and tie rod.
      How low are you? I think I am lowered about 2.25"/~60mm over stock and feel a little bit of bump steer. I would like to correct the roll center to help with roll stiffness as well as my control arms are close to horizontal. I have the spacers for my purple tag underneath the rack and it looks like the tie rods are about parallel with the ground. I love the feel of the purple tag rack and am worried the knuckle adapter will ruin the feel/make it too twitchy.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by cdl723 View Post

        How low are you? I think I am lowered about 2.25"/~60mm over stock and feel a little bit of bump steer. I would like to correct the roll center to help with roll stiffness as well as my control arms are close to horizontal. I have the spacers for my purple tag underneath the rack and it looks like the tie rods are about parallel with the ground. I love the feel of the purple tag rack and am worried the knuckle adapter will ruin the feel/make it too twitchy.
        This weekend i will try measure from the wheel centre to wheel arch and let you know. Here is a pic



        I am also running the offset CA bushes and dont think these help the situation.

        i haven't checked how horizontal my CA/tie rod are recently but need will check. I dont think i can add spacers below rack which would appear to be ideal as the exhaust manifold is in the way of the steering coupling so RHD FTL and i haven't got my custom one done yet

        MRT recommended i get the 5+5 bump steer kit vs the the 20+5 as my setup isn't extreme
        89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

        new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

        Comment


          #5
          340mm centre of wheel to the arch
          89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

          new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

          Comment


            #6
            so i swapped in a refurbed rack, new CA and bushes, new inner and outer tie rods, new GC spec konis, new engine mounts and before replacing those i used my home made bump steer gauge and with the original setup i had 0.6 mm toe change on full 2" compression which seems fairly ok. i didn't end up rechecking afterwards as alignment wasn't set and couldn't see why it would change
            89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

            new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

            Comment


              #7
              I would say do you really need the bump steer kit to begin with?

              What are the angle of your front control arms?

              I have the MRT kit with a 95M3 rack. I went for the 95M rack to keep twitchiness down. I enjoy it.

              I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
              @Zakspeed_US

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post
                I would say do you really need the bump steer kit to begin with?
                Agree, i suspect may not be much BFYB for this instance.

                Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post

                I have the MRT kit with a 95M3 rack. I went for the 95M rack to keep twitchiness down. I enjoy it.
                Seems all the rage with swaps is the quicker the rack the better, when its the feel and preciseness that matters IMO. Most swaps are shagged e30 to freshish e36/46 rack so a flawed comparison, of course it is night and day but so is a e30 shagged to fresh.

                A partial turn LTL reduction from one e36/e46/Z3 rack to another is much of a muchness. TBH a fresh e30 rack is actually perfectly fine having done fresh e30 to fresh z3 but that's one less thing to write on your mod list....​
                89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post
                  I have the MRT kit with a 95M3 rack. I went for the 95M rack to keep twitchiness down. I enjoy it.
                  Amen. Nothing worse than sneezing and ending up in a cornfield or blasting a cow.

                  Comment

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