Upgrading to m3 drop links worth it?

[JGood]

Well, that's part of the problem. The more horizontal (bad) your control arms are, the lower your roll center is (bad) and the farther away it is from your center of gravity (also bad). The farther away your RC is from your CG, the less force is needed to make the car roll. ie even though you've lowered your car and effectively have a stiffer sway bar, I would be surprised if the car rolls any less than it did from the factory.

I understand the geometry issues when lowering a car. It's a sacrifice many of us are willing to make, as there is no affordable/low maintenance solution to correct roll center that's suitable for a street car. The whole point of going to m3 end links in my example was not to increase roll bar stiffness, but to avoid the major binding problems.

My point is, when you lower it to a certain point, the control arm mounted swaybar link completely binds up. Not a little rubbing, but it 100% locks and doesn't travel any further. This is a very bad thing. Not a *not ideal* thing, but a *about to snap the end link in half* thing.

So why buy adjustable end links to eliminate pre-load when you're just gonna put it somewhere else?

Like I said above, the links fully lock up and stop functioning when lowered to a certain point. The M3 links do create slight load when turning the wheel, but it's an equal and predictable amount in each direction, so you set it to zero preload when the car is flat for that same reason you would set zero preload on any other car.

Like someone else in this thread, the control arm mounts only move in one dimension and are more direct.

If fitted to a factory height car, I'd agree. Lower it 2" or more, and they don't move at all, and lose all functionality.

Honestly, if you plan to lower your car a significant amount, going to M3 endlinks is the only option to prevent major binding with the links. Saying that you might as well not even bother dealing with the binding issues because the geometry isn't perfect, doesn't make sense to me.

[bastianshaw]

Well, that's part of the problem. The more horizontal (bad) your control arms are, the lower your roll center is (bad) and the farther away it is from your center of gravity (also bad). The farther away your RC is from your CG, the less force is needed to make the car roll. ie even though you've lowered your car and effectively have a stiffer sway bar, I would be surprised if the car rolls any less than it did from the factory.

Adding the links to the struts can also introduce binding issues unless you have, like Justin above me, bought adjustable end links. Turning the wheel will also pre-load the sway bar too. So why buy adjustable end links to eliminate pre-load when you're just gonna put it somewhere else? Another thing I've heard drivers complain about is they feel a little 'lag' in response time of the sway bar when it is mounted to the strut. Being the divas that they are, I tend to ignore them, but who knows. Like someone else in this thread, the control arm mounts only move in one dimension and are more direct. Another thing to be careful of is having a sway bar that is too stiff. Lifting tire may look cool but it is inefficiency at its finest when only one out of two tires needed to steer the car is on the ground.

So no, OP, I do not feel it is worth it for you to mount your sway bar to the strut. If you want to combat roll, correct your roll center or get stiffer springs.

Well im on races, also I think it should be noted that the front DROP links that come with the ireland bars to connect them to the control arm are height adjustable, I think im gonna run those now since there is no welding in the front and hook up the rear when i get the tabs welded

I like the idea of the m3 mounts as this is an e30 and the factory did that for a reason, I think maybe the preload from turning the strut IS the reason they did that...IM running the 2.7 z3 rack w no power steering and im about to go back to PS so the added increase in steering force will be welcomed

[bastianshaw]

Please pic document your links instal. I just received a bunch of boxes from IE with their sways and adjustable links, new shocks, springs and etc. I noticed some triangular tabs with the links, and I can already feel how puzzling the whole instal will be. I'm going to have to come here for questions and look at pictures there are no instructions whatsoever with the items, and I still need to deal with the rear sways + weld on blocks too. Anyone have pictures with those installed? thanks.

Its really not that bad, i think thats why there is no write up, DIY, ect, the only welding(if using CA mounts) is on the rear trailing arms(little triangle tabs)

[woc]

Okay. My concern was the precise location of the links, I hear they break easily if not set to correct angle and location. Some set them at the ending of the bar, some other at 1.5 inches from the ending, I just wanted to see if expertise could help me out there with those factors, I don't want to be changing links all the time. I'll be doing the job next weekend, and like they say; a picture speaks a thousand words or something like that. Thanks anyways.

[JGood]

Okay. My concern was the precise location of the links, I hear they break easily if not set to correct angle and location. Some set them at the ending of the bar, some other at 1.5 inches from the ending, I just wanted to see if expertise could help me out there with those factors, I don't want to be changing links all the time. I'll be doing the job next weekend, and like they say; a picture speaks a thousand words or something like that. Thanks anyways.

There's a pic of mine a few posts up. I jacked the control arm up to normal ride height position, attached the link to the swaybar, and put the tab on the link. I moved the swaybar so it was horizontal, and put the tab up against the strut (the tab aims rearward, the large flat surface with the hole would be parallel with the sides of the car). Then I just put a few tack welds on to hold it in place. Dissasembled the strut, finished welding, and painted it.

[bastianshaw]

Okay. My concern was the precise location of the links, I hear they break easily if not set to correct angle and location. Some set them at the ending of the bar, some other at 1.5 inches from the ending, I just wanted to see if expertise could help me out there with those factors, I don't want to be changing links all the time. I'll be doing the job next weekend, and like they say; a picture speaks a thousand words or something like that. Thanks anyways.

yea this is a major concern of mine too, i doubt the welds will break and the more i think about it it wont really matter the exact location

[lambo]

Does anyone else get a loud clunking with the M3 endlinks?

[acolella76]

Loud clunking sounds like bad ball joints/end links somewhere

[lambo]

Loud clunking sounds like bad ball joints/end links somewhere

Well the adjustable endlinks I have are a metal on metal joint so there's no rubber bushing or anything. When I bought the car, Bishop said that the clunking was from them but I'm having doubts now.

[JGood]

Well the adjustable endlinks I have are a metal on metal joint so there's no rubber bushing or anything. When I bought the car, Bishop said that the clunking was from them but I'm having doubts now.

If there is clunking from the link, the joints are worn and need replaced. It is metal on metal, that's what heim joints are, but it is supposed to be tight clearance with no play. If there's play, it needs replaced.

Could be anything in the suspension though, you need to check all bushings, ball joints, mounts, etc...

[lambo]

If there is clunking from the link, the joints are worn and need replaced. It is metal on metal, that's what heim joints are, but it is supposed to be tight clearance with no play. If there's play, it needs replaced.

Could be anything in the suspension though, you need to check all bushings, ball joints, mounts, etc...

Ahh, didn't realize that... I have checked basically everything else. I was about to disconnect the front sway bar and see if it still made the noise just to rule out possibilities. It's frustrating!

[JGood]

Ahh, didn't realize that... I have checked basically everything else. I was about to disconnect the front sway bar and see if it still made the noise just to rule out possibilities. It's frustrating!

That's the best thing to do. Disconnect both sides.

Sometimes it's hard to feel for play in joints and bushings when things are connected and loaded with weight/pressure.

[mulletman]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question.... I'm planning on running H&R race springs. I was planning on using the factory sway mount, will the car be low enough where that's a problem? My subframe won't be spaced down like yours is...

[JGood]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question.... I'm planning on running H&R race springs. I was planning on using the factory sway mount, will the car be low enough where that's a problem? My subframe won't be spaced down like yours is...

Nope, shouldn't be any issues.

[VinniE30]

I have m3 sway tabs on my strut housings and i'm going to use them instead of the control arm mounts after everything i've read.
Since it increases the sway bar effect do you think a stock e30 sway bar would be good or put in an m3 sway bar because the stock e30 one would be too stiff?
Can I use oem m3 sway bar links or should I use adjustable links like the ones from IE? I have GC coils so i'll be moderately low.