Jom vs h&r race springs

[Killacortes]

I would recommended bilsteins to everyone. The only way I would go koni is if I have sectioned housings. I'm currently running ge coilovers and bilstein sports and they ride great

[agent]

I have 2 e30s atm. one is on HR Sport + Bilstein, the other is on HR Sport and Konis. both cars have new bushings.

konis SAs are 100% better ride. every time.

Klaus is on H&R Sports and Konis; Lola is on H&R Races and Bilstein Sports. Lola is a purpose-built car for AutoX and Brodeo mountain road carving, and she does quite well at that. But Klaus' overall ride quality is far superior.

[Northern]

There are pro's and con's with both Koni SA and Bilstein sports. Since you want to stance or dump your car and go low you will need to trim the internal bumpstops on the Bilsteins and ideally have them revalved since they are not adjustable. Even then you may bottom them out if you go low enough (same with Koni's) and you'll need to find a shorter bodied shock that fits to gain travel. It's a slippery slope because these shocks and H&R Race are not cheap. You'll spend close to $1k and will need heavy duty rear shock mounts, perhaps camber plates, etc etc.

I am running Einstein's German Engineering coilovers on my white M3 and they are great. They have Hyperco springs with custom rates, adjusters/collars and camber plates. Best of all they are inexpensive which leaves more money for nice shocks although they have been fine with Bilsteins but I'm not "dumped" or stanced.

^This.

I've run H&R Race with Bilsteins and it was decent, but once I threw some shitty camber plates into the mix, it started bottoming out more frequently. Now I have GE coils with bilstein sports, GC Race plates/RSMs. The GC race plates lowered the front end 1" over the ebay plates I had, and now the strut bottoms out pretty frequently. The ride is still way better than the H&R Race setup.

I would recommend some sort of shortened strut up front, even more so with decent camber plates.

[gtdragon980]

So essentially, bilstein sports suck because they bottom out. I wonder how much bilstein charges for shortening...?

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[Cabriolet]

So essentially, bilstein sports suck because they bottom out. I wonder how much bilstein charges for shortening...?

No, they suck because they are under dampened stock and they are linear in their dampening. konis are soft when you want a smooth ride, but great when you wanna get crazy on a back road.

[F34R]

I'm not trying to start a shit storm, I really just want to know what is more modern or updated about off the shelf Koni dampers and what is wrong with Bilsteins.

If you do not wish to start something, then learn to form your "questions" in a better context.

What the fuck do you mean risk your life? You really crack me up some times.

Can you actually expand on this besides "outdated" as I've seen you post multiple times? I don't really doubt that off the shelf Konis are going to be a bit, or maybe a whole lot, better than off the shelf Bilstein Sports, but do you really thing the struts are going to kill someone? Or were you referring to using JOMs that will put you at risk?

I really do just want to know what is outdated on a Bilstein damper vs a Koni damper. I have Bilsteins, used them with H&R race, now using them with the German Engineering coilover kit. They're 'fine'. I plan to replace them with shortened Konis when the time comes to go lower, fwiw.

I am having a hard time finding the article, I am not stating Bilstein is a bad product. They are GREAT shocks, but IMO Koni has the upper hand in adjustment, response and feedback to the driver. I have used Bilstein since my first e30 in '02, they are a great option for stock to H&R race. But for lowering, they are outdated, I should have clarified. They ALWAYS bottomed out when I was running GC lowered down as far as I could(stock height insert tubes). With my valve matched Koni AND my brother's Koni SA I never EVER get that sickening sound after a hard pothole impact.

I am not going to go into CAtuned anymore, I am no in the mood for drama. JOM is total garbage, springs from cooked noodles and response of an old man. BC is known for being the best bet for a budget(not sure why when GC is only 500 more..). In the daily driving world they are fine, put them in excess stress situations and they have failed. They are designed for daily use.

I also know Bilstein can be sent off for custom shortening/valving, I have ZERO issues with Bilstein and I would never think twice about installing them for stock-H&R race height(I would still install Koni due to how much better they respond). For anything else I would go Koni SA, spec valved or send off the Bilstein sports to be shortened/valved to match.

Off the shelf, Koni outperforms Bilstein sports. I brother bought them after driving my setup to replace his Bilstein S/GC coil setup. Now running matched Koni and his GC coilovers. Springs are a lot softer than mine(envy them honestly). I cannot remember the rates off hand, but it is a little stiffer than H&R race.

I am sorry I could not find the article with proof. I do not believe the performance is lacking or outdated. For lowering, yes they are outdated. I should have been candid about that.

[nugentnsb]

I would not recommend JOM to anyone... The spring rate sucks so bad. The car gets low but the drivability is shitty... the rear spring is compressed all the way cause its so soft and u can hear all the bumps you hit.

[Earendil]

No, they suck because they are under dampened stock and they are linear in their dampening. konis are soft when you want a smooth ride, but great when you wanna get crazy on a back road.

*IF* it's true that Bilsteins are linear and Konis are not (which I doubt) then that portion of it is comfort vs performance. For performance, you want a linear (read: predictable) compression. You don't want to turn into a corner and have it go soft to hard mid weight transition.

But, I know many a car that race with Konis, and many a car that race with Bilsteins. I have no personal experience with Konis, but I find I quite enjoy H&R race + Bilsteins and absolutely do not agree with the statement that they are "dangerous". I'm still dreaming of a proper GC setup though ;)

[Killacortes]

I doubt konis are a progressive shock (soft when you ride and stiff when you corner hard)

[reelizmpro]

Someone please correct me if I am mistaken but as I remember it....dyno graphs show Bilsteins are overdamped on compression initially and stay pretty linear with no rebound adjustment. Koni's were underdamped on compression initially and get progressively stiffer. The rebound is adjustable on Koni SA's.

[kensol20]

I use the h&r setup up on my 90 325i and my car is lowered ANSI have no problems with performance


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[sfinsf]

hey eurowned... see what you started.
I also have had Jom's and ditched them for Bilstein Sports and HD's with matched springs. It is an awesome upgrade that will serve you well. Not as low as the Jom's but the handling made me not care anymore. I matched the height of the Jom's in the rear by going with HD's, in the front, the sports are about 1/2" higher than where I had the adjusters on the jom's

[ak-]

^This.

I've run H&R Race with Bilsteins and it was decent, but once I threw some shitty camber plates into the mix, it started bottoming out more frequently. Now I have GE coils with bilstein sports, GC Race plates/RSMs. The GC race plates lowered the front end 1" over the ebay plates I had, and now the strut bottoms out pretty frequently. The ride is still way better than the H&R Race setup.

I would recommend some sort of shortened strut up front, even more so with decent camber plates.

Shorter camber plates doesn't compensate for shock travel! It just lessens the "stack height" of your suspension a little. So you're car as a whole came down X amount of cm's now, or you moved your strut assembly up X amount of cm's (however you want to look at it).

So essentially, bilstein sports suck because they bottom out. I wonder how much bilstein charges for shortening...?

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I'm not sure what's all this talk about bottoming out on Bilstein Sports. If you ride unreasonably low, yes you will bottom out or sit on bumpstops. From my experience, Bilstein Sports are a TOUGH shock. It takes a lot to blow them. And this is coming from a guy who ran coilovers all the way down on them for over a year, wised up and raised them and still had great compression/rebound.
I can't comment on Koni, but more times than none I've read how they don't last when compared to Bilstein. Oh wellz.

Someone please correct me if I am mistaken but as I remember it....dyno graphs show Bilsteins are overdamped on compression initially and stay pretty linear with no rebound adjustment. Koni's were underdamped on compression initially and get progressively stiffer. The rebound is adjustable on Koni SA's.

You're correct Barry





OP,
strictly from your post, I would recommend you getting of the BC/Megan/CAtuned variety of suspension and specify you want a 1" SHORTER rear spring than stock.
Comes with everything including camber plates and rear shock mounts. You should be happy for what you're trying to do.

[Zreberlcoe]

People need to stop recommending Bilstein, they are outdated.

What the fuck I just bought some Billy sports with IE3 springs. Is it really that bad of an idea? The IE3's are 2" of a drop in the front, and 1.5" in the rear compared to H&R races that are 1.75" in the front and 1.5" in the rear.

Anywho if youre gonna go low OP and that's it, I would go Megan/BC/CAtuned if I were you.

[mulletman]

I've been happy with my Bilstein/H&R Race setup. It works well enough, and I don't have to screw with it.



Car suspensions suck, though. That's pretty much what I've learned. Unless you're spending some serious money, just get the simple option. Bilstein is non-adjustable, and according to one of the above posts, Koni is adjustable for rebound only. Unless you're racing your car, simple is better.

My bike (with stock suspension) is adjustable for ride height, pre-load, compression, and rebound. Mine is an older model that doesn't differentiate between high/low speed damping. If you want actual track performance, that's the kind of stuff you're looking at. My old Honda was only pre-load adjustable. It became glaringly obvious in under 10 minutes on track.

Think about how hard you actually drive your car. Are you really pushing it that hard?