KONI vs BILSTEIN

[K20RI_211]

Hey Man, I have Bilstein Sports with Vogtland progressives on my car. It does fine on the track and is really quite pleasant on the road, even in pothole infested Portland. A set of those springs is < $200.00. I would recommend that over spending the extra dough for the Konis.

Thanks for the response. So to clarify - is there a possibility that the springs are really the root cause of the ride harshness?

Always assumed it was shock/strut based, but it could be the springs. Didn't research the H&Rs much, mainly because there are the standard go-to in many applications.

[Cabriolet]

Consensus: the ride quality sucks. Entire suspension refreshed. Harsh, harsh, harsh (by my standards), bangs/crashes over road abrasions. I live in a pothole-infested city and it is not a pleasant experience just blasting around town.

If you think HR sports and bilstein's is harsh. then you are in for a huge surprise. this is about the softest you can go on an e30 and is crap for autoX.
what you need to do it pick track and not complain about street driving. or you need to give up tracking and keep the soft ride.

[ajhostetter]

Thanks for the response. So to clarify - is there a possibility that the springs are really the root cause of the ride harshness?

Always assumed it was shock/strut based, but it could be the springs. Didn't research the H&Rs much, mainly because there are the standard go-to in many applications.

Absolutely. Your shocks/struts simply dampen the "bounce" of your spring. While the valve rates will have have some effect on harshness, the springs are the biggest thing. The H&R race springs are awesome on a track...and BRUTAL on the street. I know some guys run them, but I'm in my mid-30s and my DD is a Ford Escape company car. I have no interest in getting my ass kicked on weekend drives. I know tomes have been written on Eibach vs. H&R, vs. Vogtland, and then the guys who'll die on one side of the Billy vs. Koni hill. Just get something progressive and you'll have no reason to dump the Bilsteins. I bought Vogtland because they were the cheapest and people seem to like them.

[K20RI_211]

If you think HR sports and bilstein's is harsh. then you are in for a huge surprise. this is about the softest you can go on an e30 and is crap for autoX.
what you need to do it pick track and not complain about street driving. or you need to give up tracking and keep the soft ride.

Ease up there, killer. Last I checked, it's my car that I can use any way I please. So kindly STFU if you're not going to contribute anything useful. If you R-E-A-D, you'll see that I said I am not going to use the car for autox any further and focus on making it a summer cruiser. Reading comprehension, it's your friend, friend.

This is not a soft ride. My M3 on stock suspension is a soft ride. What I'm asking for is an alternative to the Bilstein/H&R setup that accommodates modest lowering and provides DD-friendly ride quality. My impression was swapping in the Konis was one possible solution.

[K20RI_211]

Absolutely. Your shocks/struts simply dampen the "bounce" of your spring. While the valve rates will have have some effect on harshness, the springs are the biggest thing. The H&R race springs are awesome on a track...and BRUTAL on the street. I know some guys run them, but I'm in my mid-30s and my DD is a Ford Escape company car. I have no interest in getting my ass kicked on weekend drives. I know tomes have been written on Eibach vs. H&R, vs. Vogtland, and then the guys who'll die on one side of the Billy vs. Koni hill. Just get something progressive and you'll have no reason to dump the Bilsteins. I bought Vogtland because they were the cheapest and people seem to like them.

This is the kind of response that is helpful. Also in my mid-30s and don't really subscribe to the "It's harsh so it must be bad-ass" ride quality mantra that so many of our illustrious youth do.

H&R Sports, however, are progressive springs (as far as I know). That is what I have (not Race). If the Vogtlands are softer still, then I might check those out - but if they're likely not much of an improvement over my H&Rs, I may have to find other options.

[Cabriolet]

Ease up there, killer. Last I checked, it's my car that I can use any way I please. So kindly STFU if you're not going to contribute anything useful. If you R-E-A-D, you'll see that I said I am not going to use the car for autox any further and focus on making it a summer cruiser. Reading comprehension, it's your friend, friend.

This is not a soft ride. My M3 on stock suspension is a soft ride. What I'm asking for is an alternative to the Bilstein/H&R setup that accommodates modest lowering and provides DD-friendly ride quality. My impression was swapping in the Konis was one possible solution.

Learn some GD manners before you post next time, mmmkay?

wow touchy much. yes i read that you want it to be only a cruiser. but you need to understand that HR Sport springs are cruising springs. they are by no means autoX springs.

anyways to the topic on hand. there will be no noticeable difference in switching to Konis over the Bilsteins.
refresh every suspension bushing, using rubber only and dont get metal top-hats. then get an alignment. but keep what you have for DDing on. there is not much benefit in switching to something else, when you are just using it for cruising.
Spring--------Front(lb/in.)---------Rear(lb/in.)
Stock M3----------114----------------314
H&R Sport---------180----------------380
H&R Race----------315--------------- 570 <- this is "stiff", i use this as a lose term, because i daily on stiffer and have no issue other than when my wife runs carelessly through put holes.

[whodwho]

...Harsh, harsh, harsh (by my standards), bangs/crashes over road abrasions...

What tire size are you running? Tire profile could have a lot to do with the harshness you are experiencing.

[nando]

actually it's possible your ride is really harsh because of limited travel due to bump stops. could it be you have HDs and not sports? or perhaps H&R race, not sports?

it really sounds to me like you're riding on bump stops, although I think Bilsteins do ride "harsh" compared to Konis.

[ajhostetter]

Here's some more information on spring rates: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=210414

And yeah, it sounds like you've go H&R race.

[K20RI_211]

Here's some more information on spring rates: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=210414

And yeah, it sounds like you've go H&R race.

Nope. H&R Sports with Bilstein Sports. I am 100% positive. Tires are 205/55R-15 Yokohama S.drive.

My problem is there was a time when I found ride quality to be secondary, but not anymore. Case in point, I swapped out the "Sport" suspension on my '10 Civic Si when I had it for the stock pieces. As most of you know, factory sport suspensions aren't much harsher than stock - but it was far too harsh for me.

Comfort-wise, I want to get the E30 back to when it was 100% stock with OEM springs and shitty KYBs, but obviously w/ a lower right height. From what I've read, an Eibach Pro-Kit might make sense for my purposes.

[Wh33lhop]

Your problem is that you are being a vagina. If Bilsteins and Sports are way too stiff for you, then you may be in the wrong car.

[K20RI_211]

Your problem is that you are being a vagina. If Bilsteins and Sports are way too stiff for you, then you may be in the wrong car.

OK guys, listen: I am not one of your R3V fanbois who slams cars to the ground and calls it gold. I'm a long-standing member of the BMW CCA and purchased this car first as an autocross project, and now want to bring it back to original form.

What in God's name is wrong with you people? We share a passion that started with the 2002s, delivering handling AND comfort. I am simply asking for a solution that marries the obvious aesthetic benefits of a lower ride height with a spring option that is compliant and comfortable.

If you can't answer that, I don't know why you're participating in this conversation. I've owned E30s, E36, E46s, etc. - it is possible to achieve what I'm looking for.

Oh, and Wh33lhop? Fuck you.

[Cabriolet]

If you can't answer that, I don't know why you're participating in this conversation. I've owned E30s, E36, E46s, etc. - it is possible to achieve what I'm looking for.

We can answer that. No, it is not possible.

Also congrats on joining a club anyone can get into. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a good human. No one here gives a shit about that.

Here's your problem. You bought a car that is designed to be in-tune with the road. However, you are clearly looking for a Cadillac ride. You are on the softest springs you can do, when you lower the car. (if you like your fenders not being ripped apart.) If you lower your car on softer springs you will hit your valence and fenders every time you enter a drive way. Ask anyone here, and they will back this up. Also being that soft ruins the dynamic driving characteristics of the car. Educate your self on the geometry of the e30 and stop winning about a harsh ride. you bought the wrong car.

Better yet sell it and buy a crown-vic if you don't want to feel the road.

[agent]

I have one E30 with H&R Sports with Koni SAs (Klaus), and another with H&R Races with Bilstein Sports (Lola). Klaus rides like a Cadillac compared to Lola.

Comfort-wise, I want to get the E30 back to when it was 100% stock with OEM springs and shitty KYBs, but obviously w/ a lower right height.

From what I understand the KYBs will deliver an even harsher ride than the Bilsteins.

Also, your question was more or less already answered earlier in the thread:

Do the Koni SAs and add some H&R Sport springs when resources permit. It's a perfect setup for what you want.

That's the consensus "as good as it gets" solution for a DD with a mild drop. If you want to put a stock iS suspension back on it, PM me. I have one I'll sell you.

[K20RI_211]

I have one E30 with H&R Sports with Koni SAs (Klaus), and another with H&R Races with Bilstein Sports (Lola). Klaus rides like a Cadillac compared to Lola.



From what I understand the KYBs will deliver an even harsher ride than the Bilsteins.

Also, your question was more or less already answered earlier in the thread:



That's the consensus "as good as it gets" solution for a DD with a mild drop. If you want to put a stock iS suspension back on it, PM me. I have one I'll sell you.

That's all I was looking for. Thanks.

To the rest of you - wow. You all have some serious growing up to do. No need to respond to someone who may have different priorities than you with classic 16-year-old "I matter! Listen to me yell!" attitude. Cabriolet? Really dude? You fit the mold of internet tough guy. High-fives all around.

You like the track? Good for you. It wasn't for me. I like club events and rallies through New England backroads. You do your thing, I'll do mine. Everybody wins.

:-D