Camber Plates: Vorshlag vs GC

[Hellabad]

John is a buddy of the Motorforce/Vorshlag guys, does some testing for them. They went to college together, I'm guessing freezing texan is Brian M. No idea of jmott's connections.

As far as being harsh, no. You are passionate about your work.

Actually that whole thing is a bit embarassing, but since you found that link, I had to step up and put the scene in context as best as I could.

[whiltebeitel]

John is a buddy of the Motorforce/Vorshlag guys, does some testing for them. They went to college together, I'm guessing freezing texan is Brian M. No idea of jmott's connections.

As far as being harsh, no. You are passionate about your work.

Oh, and thanks for the "normal" BF.c link, Google only shows the archives.

[Hellabad]

I wanted to check that thread out. Found it.

This link is easier to read.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289821

And in case you think I was being harsh or out of line (which you may), there are some personal attacks that were edited out, here is a quote from the moderator:

I'm not here to take sides. I'm not going to comment on the morality or the ethics involved in copying. And I've edited the snide comments out of the quoted post (edit: by vorshlag co-owner).

Additionally I have just been told that when that was written, more than one person in that thread were "owners" of motor-force /vorshlag, and are not anymore. I did not know until just today that two and maybe three of the people involved in that thread were (or are?) secret owners of vorshlag.

Supposedly "freezing texan" and "john in houston", and maybe "jmott" worked for or owned vorshlag. No wonder they were so harsh!
Not sayin its true.... but thats what I've been told and now a lot of things make sense.


Jay Morris from Ground Control

[fiftytakedowns]

Do the Vorshlag plates lower your car about a 1/2 inch like the ground controls?

[whiltebeitel]

There is an entire bitch session there in the thread, which I pmed you the link. Ok, I can see the factual points (I have patents) but its an ethical choice the way I see it.

I wanted to check that thread out. Found it.

[Hellabad]

What was the amount of pressure the plate broke under? It may have failed before yours but if it was 5x the load the plate would ever see even under race use, it doesn't seem like a valid comparison.

Everybody asks this. I don't want to say, because then that could be open to further misinterpretation. Lets just say that the bearing carrier broke at less than the -claimed- load rating of the bearing.

[Hellabad]

...............

1) File for Patent protection on your idea. You'll have exclusive rights to your invention for 20 years. This will give you the protection you so obviously crave, assuming that you've got an idea that qualifies.

2) Assume that you can't get a patent on your idea. Go to market anyway. For a period of time, you'll be the exclusive supplier of your widget and life will be good. Soon though, other companies may decide to sell the same thing you are marketing, either identical or slightly different. They may sell it cheaper or make a slightly better version of it. That's known as competition. It's called "The Product Lifecycle" and it's Business 101. Read up.


snip.....Here’s a hint Jay, the real world operates on options 1) and 2).

MotorForce rear trailing arm washers will be on the website this weekend. The photographs will be on there that you were looking for earlier in this thread.
They aren't gonna cost $60 either.....

There is an entire bitch session there in the thread, which I pmed you the link. Ok, I can see the factual points (I have patents) but its an ethical choice the way I see it.

[z31maniac]

The short answer is "NO".

Vorshlag has publicly stated on bf.c that they WILL copy any GC designs that are not patented, and they have been true to their word. Many vorshlag products are not just a copy, but an exact duplicate of a part designed by and made by GC.

The new design is absolutely beautiful in my opinion, and has proven to be very strong, in addition to the incredible ranges of adjustment.

Here is an example:

http://www.camberplate.com/test/GCFinalCPIIa.htm

Jay Morris

You know I'm a huge supporter of your stuff, it's on both my E30s.

Do you have a link to where Terry or any of his employees said that in on bfc? If so, I'd like to read it, because if true I'd like to never give them any business again.

What was the amount of pressure the plate broke under? It may have failed before yours but if it was 5x the load the plate would ever see even under race use, it doesn't seem like a valid comparison.

[yberther]

The ones that have the rear bolts sunken in (forgot the technical term)

counter sink.

Here is an example:

http://www.camberplate.com/test/GCFinalCPIIa.htm

Jay Morris

sweet video. No actual numbers though, just a hydraulic press till they break?

Any other "specs" on the new plates? Or can you confirm anything (like stack height or how adjustable they are)?

[whiltebeitel]

The short answer is "NO".

Vorshlag has publicly stated on bf.c that they WILL copy any GC designs that are not patented, and they have been true to their word. Many vorshlag products are not just a copy, but an exact duplicate of a part designed by and made by GC.

The new design is absolutely beautiful in my opinion, and has proven to be very strong, in addition to the incredible ranges of adjustment.

Here is an example:

http://www.camberplate.com/test/GCFinalCPIIa.htm

Jay Morris

Cool video. Will you make a version for stock-type springs?

[Hellabad]

What is the policy on upgrading if I have a set of specE30 plates?

Not very much in common. The spec e30 is pretty specific. email me pics (so I know which version you have) and I will figure out the best plan.

support at ground hyphen control dot com

Jay

[HellzMindPlaya]

What is the policy on upgrading if I have a set of specE30 plates?

[Hellabad]

Care to post more info on these new desgin plates?

The short answer is "NO".

Vorshlag has publicly stated on bf.c that they WILL copy any GC designs that are not patented, and they have been true to their word. Many vorshlag products are not just a copy, but an exact duplicate of a part designed by and made by GC.

The new design is absolutely beautiful in my opinion, and has proven to be very strong, in addition to the incredible ranges of adjustment.

Here is an example:

http://www.camberplate.com/test/GCFinalCPIIa.htm

Jay Morris

[lifeiskaos]

The ones that have the rear bolts sunken in (forgot the technical term) are new. They allow you to have max adjustment, by putting those bolts underneath the shock tower, as in the picture you showed. It used to be that both plates had extruding bolt heads, so the shock tower was the limiting factor in the adjustment.

[whiltebeitel]

Hate to bump old threads, but I don't feel like making a new one.

So often I hear that Vorshlag is "better" but I don't know why. From what I understand, the new Ground Control camber plates offer more camber and caster adjustment, they have a shorter stack height, and they are significantly cheaper. Am I missing something? What's better about Vorshlag's?

Care to post more info on these new desgin plates? These are the only ones I see on thier site: http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=773/CA=182