I bought a 325i swapped with eta engine

[SeriousBusiness]

turbo m50 vs turbo m20? lets see that :)

Most of my friends are convinced the M20 cannot produce upwards of 400whp on a moderate budget and forged pistons/rods. Bunch of M50 fanboys I say, I think either engine would surprise with a built bottom and snail attached.

Though stock for stock, I'd like to see the limits of either engine, power wise, with a turbo.

Never really researched it though..

[Wh33lhop]

I'm still not sold on the m50 swap. I did one recently at my shop in a friend's car, then did the 885 top end and Motronic 1.3 in my car. The m50 went in an 87e and my car is an 86 es. Neither of us swapped gears or trans (both 2.98 diffs, Getrag 260's). We have yet to race since he goes to NY for the summer and I just finished mine, but have proof of both on video, and drove both cars of course since they were done at my place haha.

Here's the video of his car. For fair comparison (timing of the vid start is off), his car is at 10mph at 0:02...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNNJ0Rx57qg

and here's mine, 10mph at 0:04...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQHs1FSx_ys

his hits 60 at 0:10 and mine is at 0:11. I'd say the stroker is a close run for the m50, maybe I'm crazy?

Give the M50 a tune, or in the case of the TU, M3 cams and a tune, and that M50 will start to show a bit more potential.

http://www.vimeo.com/8649991

Here's my NV with a mark d chip and hot air intake (skip to 1 minute for a straight line run)



Plus, personally I would not want to tear apart an engine and do a half-assed build, so the M20 stroker would probably be pretty expensive if you went to the point where you could reliably take an M50 (new valve springs/rockers/Shrick/high comp pistons etc). But that's just me.

[SeriousBusiness]

so the M20 stroker would probably be pretty expensive if you went to the point where you could reliably take an M50 (new valve springs/rockers/Shrick/high comp pistons etc). But that's just me.

This is what I was getting at. Dollar for dollar, the newer engine is the ticket IMO. If you do the stroker right you will spend MORE to be faster than even a stock M50.

[VinniE30]

The valve cover in the middle is the eta one right?

[SeriousBusiness]

The valve cover in the middle is the eta one right?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (lol) and say...They're all the same, save for the exterior design.

But then again, I do not know b27's enough to know if they got that special VC (design wise).

[Wh33lhop]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (lol) and say...They're all the same, save for the exterior design.

They are, and the one in the middle is the one found on etas from the factory.

[Danny]

They are, and the one in the middle is the one found on etas from the factory.

+1

Also, swap an S50 in.

[SeriousBusiness]

+1

Also, swap an S50 in.

Swap an LS1.

[Danny]

Hmm yes

[SeriousBusiness]

Hmm yes

8)

Then its settled.

OP, put an LS1 in your fake ass 325i or ban.

[ForcedFirebird]

You are not crazy at all sir. I am a HUGE M20 fan myself and am still on the fence about building a little M20 stroker, or going for the M50. For the money spent, the M20 stroker will be faster (marginally), but the M50 will have DOHC, possibly VANOS (which I could probably do without), it will be a more modern engine as well. Not to mention the M50 will be a stock platform with MANY areas to upgrade in the future. Once you stroke the M20 and do some machine work to make it faster than the M50 you are going to struggle to upgrade from there (and stay N/A). Then there is the increased upkeep (financially) of the M50 (basic engine accessories). Starters and alternators for the M20 are just plain cheaper, by a long shot. Though the M50 has COP ignition which is VERY nice considering the M20's 140$ spark plug wires.

That is some of my take on it, and its a real toss up on this subject for me. I was just trying to be witty and tell the OP to ditch the tank engine.

$140 spark plug wires, are you sick? lol. The plug wires are nothing special. If you have the knowledge, you can actually upgrade your wires for a lot less. There is a way to get the sensor off and put it on any wire, it's outlined in my shop manuals.

turbo m50 vs turbo m20? lets see that :)

I will. I am working on my 8th turbo kit, customers, friends and my own cars. I am very curious how much I can see N/A without spending a lot of money first, though. I have a $50 chip burner and the free version of TunerPro.

Most of my friends are convinced the M20 cannot produce upwards of 400whp on a moderate budget and forged pistons/rods. Bunch of M50 fanboys I say, I think either engine would surprise with a built bottom and snail attached.

Though stock for stock, I'd like to see the limits of either engine, power wise, with a turbo and good tuning.
Never really researched it though..

I have a feeling you can see 400hp out of the motor, it's the rest of the car that becomes questionable.

I have seen a stock bottom end 2.2l Dodge turbo do 30 psi and run 10 seconds in a freaking k car ROFL. He put a big inter-cooler on it without tuning and crushed his piston like tinfoil, still managed a decent time running on 3cyls.

Give the M50 a tune, or in the case of the TU, M3 cams and a tune, and that M50 will start to show a bit more potential.

http://www.vimeo.com/8649991

Here's my NV with a mark d chip and hot air intake (skip to 1 minute for a straight line run)



Plus, personally I would not want to tear apart an engine and do a half-assed build, so the M20 stroker would probably be pretty expensive if you went to the point where you could reliably take an M50 (new valve springs/rockers/Shrick/high comp pistons etc). But that's just me.

Very nice! I see it as people keep throwing away M20's. So you take and engine that you already have, put a little into wear-parts and a your own labor, you have cheap, fast and reliable. With the m50, you are already starting with a much bigger budget. You put that same dollar amount into the m20 and see what happens.

This is what I was getting at. Dollar for dollar, the newer engine is the ticket IMO. If you do the stroker right you will spend MORE to be faster than even a stock M50.

Newer engine, but using some JY parts, the m20 is abundant. The m50 is always raped as soon as they get there lol, specially any vanos parts.

The valve cover in the middle is the eta one right?

Hey, that pic looks familiar lol.

This photobucket account was full, but there's more, had to create a second account. One project we are almost finished with (sorry about the hijack/off topic)...

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t87/forcedfirebird/Paul%20in%20VA%20mods/?start=all

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (lol) and say...They're all the same, save for the exterior design.

But then again, I do not know b27's enough to know if they got that special VC (design wise).

Only the outside of the casting is different. The eta has a mounting point for the cold start injector, the i only has the two holes for the manifold vac bung bracket.

[SeriousBusiness]

What I mean is, if you walk into a parts store and ask for some plug wires, you are going to pay out the nose. I just use this for a benchmark. ;)

[fryerfighter94]

[Wh33lhop]

Very nice! I see it as people keep throwing away M20's. So you take and engine that you already have, put a little into wear-parts and a your own labor, you have cheap, fast and reliable. With the m50, you are already starting with a much bigger budget. You put that same dollar amount into the m20 and see what happens.

My M50 ran me $600, and that was just an okay deal. Thinking back on my swap I spent a lot on stuff I wanted to replace "while it was out there" but honestly the bare minimum of an M50 swap: Booster/MC ($50 for me), modify your trans brace (again, $60 for me) shave your flywheel ($100 for me but unnecessary if you cut away a bit at the M50), twist your selector rod, make your harness adapter, adapt the exhaust and it pretty much bolts up.

This is not including stuff you will do "while you're in there" which usually winds up being the majority of the cost of an M50 swap, but your M20 probably needs all this stuff as well. But in terms of the base cost of the swap, well you need to be under like $800 in parts on your M20, so with super eta rotating assembly, a cam, bearing shells, new valve springs and rockers, you're already way through that. If you just want to toss a super eta rotating assy into a B25 then that's pretty cheap, but you're not going to be eating M50s for lunch either.

[ForcedFirebird]

My M50 ran me $600, and that was just an okay deal. Thinking back on my swap I spent a lot on stuff I wanted to replace "while it was out there" but honestly the bare minimum of an M50 swap: Booster/MC ($50 for me), modify your trans brace (again, $60 for me) shave your flywheel ($100 for me but unnecessary if you cut away a bit at the M50), twist your selector rod, make your harness adapter, adapt the exhaust and it pretty much bolts up.

This is not including stuff you will do "while you're in there" which usually winds up being the majority of the cost of an M50 swap, but your M20 probably needs all this stuff as well. But in terms of the base cost of the swap, well you need to be under like $800 in parts on your M20, so with super eta rotating assembly, a cam, bearing shells, new valve springs and rockers, you're already way through that. If you just want to toss a super eta rotating assy into a B25 then that's pretty cheap, but you're not going to be eating M50s for lunch either.

It's all the peripherals that cost you on an m50 swap.

Here's how mine broke down, doing all the labor myself with minimal tools (I needed my TIG several times for all you listed on my friends swap).

$80 jy head, $50 for the machining.
$57 water pump
$42 timing belt
(forget the $$ on the tensioner)
$1.80 jy wires
$17 jy 173 ecu
$27 jy harness
$19 Castrol GTX and Purolator filter
re-used mani gaskets
~$5 in ROL gasket maker material
~$5 tube of silicone
$32 jy manifold
(forget the $$ for the TB)
$12 coolant
$8 IAC
$27 AFM
$12 valve cover
$16 crank trigger wheel
$40 head gasket

I'd say less than $500 for almost the same performance of a $600 m50 using all stock e30 parts that bolt on/in.

With the equipment in the shop and some scrap metal/parts, I'm sure the m50 could be done with only the cost of the motor taken into account, but would be a lot more fabrication or more money in the swap parts. We didn't change the booster for the m50 swap. I have a thread in about it. Made the harness adapter, welded tubing on the stock trans mount to angle the Getrag 260, made a new y-pipe, welded in the new o2 bung. I didn't physically bolt the engine in as he had someone else start the project - long story, we had to fix everything, including the clutch the guy bolten in backwards :(, but I'm sure there was the radiator, hoses, and motor mounts that came from somewhere at a cost. The guy gave him a bad ZF (why we put in the 260), and spliced/diced a lot of stuff we corrected in the process...

I like this thread :D You guys are good conversation :)