Spec E30 Crash @ Road Atlanta

[pwagon717]

It was no way he could have avoided that situation, he was following a line and going a good rate of speed. He basically was in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Scott is also an Instructor, so I think he a little knowledge about racing.

[Simontibbett]

I think the only complaint here would be he saw the smoke long before he got in it, he could have prepared accordingly expecting something on the surface. Of course it's easy to say now when not in the heat of the moment but looking far ahead pays off frequently on track, I don't doubt he saw it though.

[TobyB]

...surprised I'm the first one to say "Well, he lifted"...

not like that would have made much difference, but it DID
break the rear end loose. Perhaps a bit less painful would have
been to lock it down early.

But I wasn't driving, and it's not my car, so, from me, sympathy.

"I lay in the grass for a while. It was quite comfortable. I appreciated the fact that I didn't have to do a goddamned thing. There were folks coming to get me and my only responsibility was to just lay there and enjoy the sunshine."

BTDT. It's about as much fun as it looks. It's even worse in the rain.

t

[ohthejosh]

I have never been on a track ever so my observation and opinion may just be completely and utterly irrelevant but I will express it anyways...I have concluded that he could not have avoided this situation what so ever.

Although as a previous member noted there was a good amount of time from when smoke appeared to his lost of control the driver ahead of him took the inside of the first bend in the s-curve which in turn gave him no room to avoid the slick substance on the track.

If you watch the video real real close at around 16 1/2 secs is where you start to see the first signs of substance on the track and it is also the same time he let off indicating to me that this is when he noticed it as well also it is when he was SOL at the point of no return.

Notice the position of slick substance + position of his car + distance between slick substance and grass all that looks to be a recipe for what happened.

He basically was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[dashboardmonkey]

ouch

[AndrewBird]

Doesn't look like he let it happen to me. Control on antifreeze is close to nil. I bet he got screwed by ABS in one of the rare circumstances where it isn't beneficial.

What I meant was, it doesn't look like he countersteers much if at all. I watched the video again and he does turn the wheel left, but quite a while after he is already turning sideways. But like I said before, you can't judge what happened without being there. What it looks like in a video and what actually happened are generally two very different things.

[Bimmerman325i]

What I meant was, it doesn't look like he countersteers much if at all. I watched the video again and he does turn the wheel left, but quite a while after he is already turning sideways. But like I said before, you can't judge what happened without being there. What it looks like in a video and what actually happened are generally two very different things.

If I was him, after realizing he couldn't save the car I'd avoid crossing hands to keep from breaking arms/wrists/hands etc. Cars are much easier and quicker to fix.

[nrubenstein]

What I meant was, it doesn't look like he countersteers much if at all. I watched the video again and he does turn the wheel left, but quite a while after he is already turning sideways. But like I said before, you can't judge what happened without being there. What it looks like in a video and what actually happened are generally two very different things.

His statement is that he knew it was past saving, so he locked the brakes up. You don't steer in that situation. Unfortunately, ABS won't let you do that. He steered in after he realized that locking them up wasn't going to work.

[calz4m]

I know the driver and I have raced with him. He is an excellent driver, instructor, and racer. It's so easy to sit here and second guess a video. Having been in a similar situation I can tell you he did the best he could with what he had at the time. I am just glad my friend walked away without a scratch.

[Freude am Fahren]

If I was him, after realizing he couldn't save the car I'd avoid crossing hands to keep from breaking arms/wrists/hands etc. Cars are much easier and quicker to fix.

As an aspiring medical school, I approve this message.

[RangerGress]

Hard hit for sure. I think his >160g calculation might be a little off.

Do the math yourself friend. I would agree tho that just because the car crushed in 18" doesn't mean that the driver takes >160g. It's more complex than that.

Re. speed. I looked at old videos and the speed thru at the exit of 4 is a >90mph. The estimate of hitting the wall at 85mph is good within 1 or 2mph easy.

Was cool of y'all to not kick my ass in this thread. We pretty much discussed it to death at bf.c. As discussed there, the driver has a helova lot more info than the video watcher. I thought that the car with the mystery smoke was staying left so I tried I backed off the gas a smidgen and tried to stay right. We saw how that worked. The guy dumping fluid didn't stay left so I had no place to go.

I didn't actually see fluid until I felt the rear end go. But I felt it go long before the oversteer was visible in the video. The driver hears the car "whisper". A video only hears a car "holler". I attempted a correction and it did nothing so I went to guns. I mean brakes.

By the time folks see oversteer in the video I'm already on the brakes.

The question remains, could I have caught it if I'd a corrected with more left steering input? And the answer to that is "I don't know". After 4 yrs of racing and >300 track days my automatic reflexes are probably average for my peer group. They have lucky days and unlucky days.

I'm already working on the new car. Between beers I mean.

[jlevie]

Scott is a good friend of mine, but that has nothing to do with what I'm about to say.

I totaled a Spec E30 two years ago in the same place, with help from a Miata. I don't have any video from the car (the camera didn't survive the G forces), but I have very vivid memories from the incident. What I remember most is how fast the car came around and how little affect anything I did had on the outcome and that was on a dry surface. From the beginning of the Esses through T5 a car at race speed, or close to it, is pretty much at the tire limit the entire time. And entering the Esses the car is going downhill so grip is further reduced. Anything that causes a departure there is probably going to be a hopeless situation. Add in unexpected water on the track and there's no hope.

I don't think Scott had a chance once the car started to come around. If there was any hope of avoiding an impact with a wall it would have been from pointing the wheels straight before encountering the coolant. But that would have mean knowing there was coolant on the track before it could have been seen. Based on what he could see as he approached the Esses the Spec 3 was loosing something and had moved track left. Scott moved track right with every expectation that the right side of the track would be clean. As it turns out it wasn't, but you can't see the liquid until too late to do anything about it.

If you watch the video one time and stop it just before the car starts to come and then ask yourself if the driver's actions are correct I think you'll decide they are. It is only after seeing more of the video that the question of what might have been better comes up. As they say, hindsight is always 20/20. But I submit that Scott took the correct actions based on the information available to him at the time.

FYI: When the Miata punted my the car was doing 93mph. My first impact on the right rear was at 89.8mph, the second on the right front was at 78.7mph as shown by my IQ3 data. The peak forces were probably slightly less than Scott's because of the double hits. But even so they were enough to bend just about every tube (noticeably) in the roll cage, bend the frame and make the car "C shaped", and rip three of the seat mounting points from the floor of the car. My HANS tethers had noticeable stretch. Oh yeah, I had a center net in the car and the hook on the latch straightened out, but in the process the center net did what it was intended to do.

The walls are close enough that you loose very little speed while locked up before you yeah the wall. In my case it was less than 4mph. My guess is that Scott was doing better than 85mph when the car reached the wall.

So I don't have any difficulty in imagining how bad a hit Scott took. I'm just greatly relieved that he wasn't injured.

[RangerGress]

Good adventure stories come at a price.

Jim(jlevie) is at my place making me laugh and I had to tell him to knock it off because it makes my ribs hurt.

[Raxe]

Glad you're ok man, that was a nasty hit. Sad that you lost your car in the process, looking forward to see the new one!

[ohthejosh]

So is it safe to say my assessment of that video was near spot on lol jk good to hear from ya. Hope you have many more safe and fun races from now on. Wish you all the best good sir.