Prejudice against newer/new cars?

[LuckyHenriksen]

I am glad to hear so many people in here are against having silly car payments. That is one of the main reasons my fleet of cars is mostly all older or bought cheap. Stay out of debt!

[enigmaticdream]

ITT, disillusioned poor people.


There are innumerable new or upcoming cars I'd love to own/drive. The ATS, F30 320i, the Golf R, Focus ST, hell, even the Chevy Cruze. The FR-S/BRZ, Abarth 500, skyactiv Mazda's, Regal GS, upcoming Merc CLA, the 991 Carrera, and whatever the new Acura NSX is going to be. Plus new trucks from Ford and Chevy are looking better than ever.


The E30 is still fun, still capable, and still nice. But hand me the keys to any of the above mentioned cars vs. a run-of-the-mill, but nicely maintained E30... I'll take the new car. That's why I'm driving a MKV right now.

I went and test drove a Focus ST and Golf GTI today for fun. I was reminded why e30s and bmws in general rule. They weren't bad cars but heel and toe was shit and it felt disconnected, even compared to an e46...

[previasc96]

Would I drive a new car if it were free? Probably, the technology and engineering going into some (some, not all) of today's cars is absolutely phenomenal. But I can't justify having a ridiculous car payment + insurance costs when I can already get so much driving pleasure out of the e30.

When the roads suck, I just hop in my 4x4 Jeep XJ and that takes me wherever else I want to go. It's got 227k on it and shows no signs of slowing down. I just fix stuff that's all easily serviceable whenever anything breaks and keep on going for a mere fraction of the cost of a new car payment.

Until I have enough extra cash floating around to buy something new outright, I'll keep my debts at student loans only.

Heck yeah! I love XJ Jeeps!
If i won the lotto today I would get an XJ for a daily...it floods alot here in S. FLA, so i wouldn't have to be nervous about driving through flooded streets.

[BlackbirdM3]

A+ thread. id rather have the older styling with heart transplants. nothing wrong with giving it a smaller faster power plant while keeping the class that an older car holds

Except that if you can't work with the correct motor, you have the wrong car. The motor and the body are both equally important. That said, building the hell out of the motor is bad ass. Turbo it, super charge it, build a hot NA motor, its all good. A motor swap is, and always will be lame in my book. It lacks all creativity. I'll always respect a car with a bitchin correct motor, I'll never respect a motor swap no matter what was swapped in or how cleanly it was done.

An older car deserves its correct motor, be it totally stock or bad ass.

Will

[JasonC]

Except that if you can't work with the correct motor, you have the wrong car. The motor and the body are both equally important. That said, building the hell out of the motor is bad ass. Turbo it, super charge it, build a hot NA motor, its all good. A motor swap is, and always will be lame in my book. It lacks all creativity. I'll always respect a car with a bitchin correct motor, I'll never respect a motor swap no matter what was swapped in or how cleanly it was done.

An older car deserves its correct motor, be it totally stock or bad ass.

Will

Yes! Because dealing with a Model T or A and trying to hop up their powertrain is so logical. Along with cars from the 40's,50's, and early 60's With an inline six is so much better then a small block or big block swap. And never does a engine swap lack creativity to put it into said car.

[BlackbirdM3]

Yes! Because dealing with a Model T or A and trying to hop up their powertrain is so logical. Along with cars from the 40's,50's, and early 60's With an inline six is so much better then a small block or big block swap. And never does a engine swap lack creativity to put it into said car.

You have illustrated my point perfectly. Why the hell would you want to put more power in a Model A or T? It lacks the means to stop as it is, the suspension isn't up to the task nor is the rest of the drive line, not to mention the wooden spoked wheels. Moving on, cars from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, often have plenty of power, and some may or may not have the ability to stop themselves the newer the car, most likely the better it stops. Still, why do you need more power out of say a Packard? Its already got miles of torque, and is a giant boat, so its not going to corner for crap anyway. If the car comes with a small block V8 and you want to put a big block in, have at it, it looks the same. Or in my case, take a Datsun with a 4 cylinder (be it a 510 or what have you) You drop $10K into installing a modern motor that makes less hp than a perfectly streetable hot version of the correct motor that would cost less to build than swapping the modern motor in. In this case, you spend a stupid amount of $ to have someone install the wrong motor, that makes less power, and devalues the car by half. Where does that make sense? (In this case I'm talking an SR20 or KA24 swap vs a hot L series, or in my case a U20.) To install one of these modern lumps, the car usually must be cut up to make the new mess fit. Sounds to me like someone has spent a stupid amount of $ for less power, ruined what was a perfectly good car, and dropped its value to half what the car was worth with the correct motor in it (which is likely less than what it cost to install the modern motor in the first place.) All I can say there is thanks moron, you just increased the value of my car by destroying yours.

In the case of E30s, there is a lot of potential in the stock motors, or you can build a hybrid variation of a stock motor that looks like a stock motor from the outside. Do some headwork, add some cams, a chip, perhaps rework the intake system (AFM to MAF or individual throttle bodies if you really wish to get creative.) Or heck, do all of that and turbo the thing. Its not going to be slow by any means. It will also look correct, or have enough correct elements to it that people stop and go, "Dude, that is bad ass! It looks stock, but its got a set of triple throttle bodies, fed through a common sealed air box from a turbo." No cutting of the body required (most likely), and everything is a straight bolt in. You take an S5X, you spend $10K to install the thing, but fail to rebuild it first. Great, you have a motor that doesn't belong, that you spend big $ on to have installed, that now needs a rebuild because you didn't feel like spending $15-20K on the initial installation to have the motor rebuilt in the first place before it went into the car. Still, if you go for big hp, you need to replace the transmission, clutch, diff, and everything else in the drive line so it doesn't break down the road, not to mention upgrading the whole cooling system

Like I said, motor swaps are boring and unimaginative. If you want a BMW with an S5x in it, go buy the car that the motor comes with. You will be miles ahead in the long run.

Will

[VinniE30]

In the case of E30s, there is a lot of potential in the stock motors, or you can build a hybrid variation of a stock motor that looks like a stock motor from the outside. Do some headwork, add some cams, a chip, perhaps rework the intake system (AFM to MAF or individual throttle bodies if you really wish to get creative.) Or heck, do all of that and turbo the thing. Its not going to be slow by any means. It will also look correct, or have enough correct elements to it that people stop and go, "Dude, that is bad ass! It looks stock, but its got a set of triple throttle bodies, fed through a common sealed air box from a turbo." No cutting of the body required (most likely), and everything is a straight bolt in. You take an S5X, you spend $10K to install the thing, but fail to rebuild it first. Great, you have a motor that doesn't belong, that you spend big $ on to have installed, that now needs a rebuild because you didn't feel like spending $15-20K on the initial installation to have the motor rebuilt in the first place before it went into the car. Still, if you go for big hp, you need to replace the transmission, clutch, diff, and everything else in the drive line so it doesn't break down the road, not to mention upgrading the whole cooling system

Like I said, motor swaps are boring and unimaginative. If you want a BMW with an S5x in it, go buy the car that the motor comes with. You will be miles ahead in the long run.

Will

Not following this logic of yours that swapping in a different motor than stock is somehow unimaginative and boring compared to modifying a stock motor. One of the things I like the most about the e30 is that it's one of the most diversely swapped models out of any car, definitely out of any bmw model.
I like the m20 and other stock e30 engines but seeing an e30 with a different engine is the opposite of unimaginative and boring to me. Not following you at all there. And everything you said about modding an m20 could also be done to one of the 24v engines.

Also swapping a motor doesn't cost anywhere close to what your'e saying it does. But for an equal comparison getting 240HP out of an NA m20 would cost way more than swapping an s50/s52. That doesn't really matter anyway because money can be either not a factor or a big factor, all depending on the person. So just talk about the end result here.

And you say "go buy the car that motor comes with". Well that defeats the purpose. The purpose to many is to have an e30 and everything that they like about it for example how its looks and its light weight, then give it the power of a newer motor. Reasons for that could be anything from tracking the car to just wanting the advantages of the more modern motor for a daily driver like power, smoothness, reliability, gas mileage. The m20 is a good motor but it doesn't have much potential NA, and a lot of people want to stay NA for reliability, simplicity, and many other reasons.

[ELVA164]

An older car deserves its correct motor, be it totally stock or bad ass.

Will

I wonder if the folks who built the Cobra would agree with you...?

[craiggroves91]

This thread convinced me to cancel my order for the new M3. Thanks Guys

[AussieTemplar]

You have illustrated my point perfectly. Why the hell would you want to put more power in a Model A or T? It lacks the means to stop as it is, the suspension isn't up to the task nor is the rest of the drive line, not to mention the wooden spoked wheels. Moving on, cars from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, often have plenty of power, and some may or may not have the ability to stop themselves the newer the car, most likely the better it stops. Still, why do you need more power out of say a Packard? Its already got miles of torque, and is a giant boat, so its not going to corner for crap anyway. If the car comes with a small block V8 and you want to put a big block in, have at it, it looks the same. Or in my case, take a Datsun with a 4 cylinder (be it a 510 or what have you) You drop $10K into installing a modern motor that makes less hp than a perfectly streetable hot version of the correct motor that would cost less to build than swapping the modern motor in. In this case, you spend a stupid amount of $ to have someone install the wrong motor, that makes less power, and devalues the car by half. Where does that make sense? (In this case I'm talking an SR20 or KA24 swap vs a hot L series, or in my case a U20.) To install one of these modern lumps, the car usually must be cut up to make the new mess fit. Sounds to me like someone has spent a stupid amount of $ for less power, ruined what was a perfectly good car, and dropped its value to half what the car was worth with the correct motor in it (which is likely less than what it cost to install the modern motor in the first place.) All I can say there is thanks moron, you just increased the value of my car by destroying yours.

In the case of E30s, there is a lot of potential in the stock motors, or you can build a hybrid variation of a stock motor that looks like a stock motor from the outside. Do some headwork, add some cams, a chip, perhaps rework the intake system (AFM to MAF or individual throttle bodies if you really wish to get creative.) Or heck, do all of that and turbo the thing. Its not going to be slow by any means. It will also look correct, or have enough correct elements to it that people stop and go, "Dude, that is bad ass! It looks stock, but its got a set of triple throttle bodies, fed through a common sealed air box from a turbo." No cutting of the body required (most likely), and everything is a straight bolt in. You take an S5X, you spend $10K to install the thing, but fail to rebuild it first. Great, you have a motor that doesn't belong, that you spend big $ on to have installed, that now needs a rebuild because you didn't feel like spending $15-20K on the initial installation to have the motor rebuilt in the first place before it went into the car. Still, if you go for big hp, you need to replace the transmission, clutch, diff, and everything else in the drive line so it doesn't break down the road, not to mention upgrading the whole cooling system

Like I said, motor swaps are boring and unimaginative. If you want a BMW with an S5x in it, go buy the car that the motor comes with. You will be miles ahead in the long run.

Will

Hence why I have a fully worked M20B25 which is now an M20B31.. 3.1L stroker, 288 cam, MAF, forged pistons etc etc etc.. faster then any S52 out there!

[craiggroves91]

Hence why I have a fully worked M20B25 which is now an M20B31.. 3.1L stroker, 288 cam, MAF, forged pistons etc etc etc.. faster then any S52 out there!

Doubt it

[ELVA164]

This thread convinced me to cancel my order for the new M3. Thanks Guys

Welcome! :up:

[mikeedler]

Hence why I have a fully worked M20B25 which is now an M20B31.. 3.1L stroker, 288 cam, MAF, forged pistons etc etc etc.. faster then any S52 out there!

why would you do that?????? the brakes aren't made to handle that?????????


wow, just wow.....BlackbirdM3

[lambo]

Ahhh yes! Let's all drive the exact same cars with the exact same engines because that's creativity, folks!

[AussieTemplar]

Doubt it

How much power does your S52 put out?

I guess I was being a bit general, but it's damn quick for an M20!