Prejudice against newer/new cars?

[craiggroves91]

How much power does your S52 put out?

I guess I was being a bit general, but it's damn quick for an M20!

Idk haven't dyno'd it.
I'd hope I'm at least at 210whp
Didn't mean to come off rude but it takes A LOT to get a m20 to the same or more power output than an S52.

[willy-guldager]

New cars are meant to be comfortable. Old cars are meant to be drivin.
I love driving old cars. I just feel much better and i feel like I'm one with the car. I feel like i drive the car, not the car driving me

[AussieTemplar]

Doubt it

Idk haven't dyno'd it.
I'd hope I'm at least at 210whp
Didn't mean to come off rude but it takes A LOT to get a m20 to the same or more power output than an S52.

Well my last dyno figure was 184kw atw, which is 245hp.

Sorry. Hahahaha.

[Northern]

Thats pretty damn good for an m20. I dont see it being more powerful than an equally built s52 though

[JasonC]

You have illustrated my point perfectly. Why the hell would you want to put more power in a Model A or T? It lacks the means to stop as it is, the suspension isn't up to the task nor is the rest of the drive line, not to mention the wooden spoked wheels. Moving on, cars from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, often have plenty of power, and some may or may not have the ability to stop themselves the newer the car, most likely the better it stops. Still, why do you need more power out of say a Packard? Its already got miles of torque, and is a giant boat, so its not going to corner for crap anyway. If the car comes with a small block V8 and you want to put a big block in, have at it, it looks the same. Or in my case, take a Datsun with a 4 cylinder (be it a 510 or what have you) You drop $10K into installing a modern motor that makes less hp than a perfectly streetable hot version of the correct motor that would cost less to build than swapping the modern motor in. In this case, you spend a stupid amount of $ to have someone install the wrong motor, that makes less power, and devalues the car by half. Where does that make sense? (In this case I'm talking an SR20 or KA24 swap vs a hot L series, or in my case a U20.) To install one of these modern lumps, the car usually must be cut up to make the new mess fit. Sounds to me like someone has spent a stupid amount of $ for less power, ruined what was a perfectly good car, and dropped its value to half what the car was worth with the correct motor in it (which is likely less than what it cost to install the modern motor in the first place.) All I can say there is thanks moron, you just increased the value of my car by destroying yours.

In the case of E30s, there is a lot of potential in the stock motors, or you can build a hybrid variation of a stock motor that looks like a stock motor from the outside. Do some headwork, add some cams, a chip, perhaps rework the intake system (AFM to MAF or individual throttle bodies if you really wish to get creative.) Or heck, do all of that and turbo the thing. Its not going to be slow by any means. It will also look correct, or have enough correct elements to it that people stop and go, "Dude, that is bad ass! It looks stock, but its got a set of triple throttle bodies, fed through a common sealed air box from a turbo." No cutting of the body required (most likely), and everything is a straight bolt in. You take an S5X, you spend $10K to install the thing, but fail to rebuild it first. Great, you have a motor that doesn't belong, that you spend big $ on to have installed, that now needs a rebuild because you didn't feel like spending $15-20K on the initial installation to have the motor rebuilt in the first place before it went into the car. Still, if you go for big hp, you need to replace the transmission, clutch, diff, and everything else in the drive line so it doesn't break down the road, not to mention upgrading the whole cooling system

Like I said, motor swaps are boring and unimaginative. If you want a BMW with an S5x in it, go buy the car that the motor comes with. You will be miles ahead in the long run.

Will

You're not to bright are you? Now who the fuck would do a engine swap in a model T or A and not do the rest of the suspension to accomadate the larger engine? And i guess these guys are boring and unimaginative when they built their cars too...




Moving on.... You say Packard. Lets take a 1950. It has miles of torq? The biggest engine only offered 160hp@3600 and 270lbs.ft.@2000 Thats a real barn stormer!!! Plus most Parkards that are not stock are turned into "la bombas" And they are a cruising car, not a road racer. Something tells me you're a track snob. But lets talk about how a small block looks like a big block! Have you ever took your head out of under a hood of a foreign car to look in a domestic cars engine bay? Cause if you think the two look alike, you need glasses.

As for the Datsuns, i'm not to up on them, so i'll let someone else chime in on those things. And for the BMW swaps, there's plunty of people on here that can chime in and pummel you on your logic about that spew you put out there.

[Xat1cZ]

oh crap... I was thinking about dropping a 454 in to a '32... but I now realize.... that nothing will hold up.... and I won't be able to brake either.... dodged a bullet on this one!

It will be much more fun and rewarding to tune the stock engine after all.


As for the hole "keep stock motor in e30", yeh I get it, I'd like nothing more than turbo'ing the S14 to ~800 hp, I feel that is the best choice for a M3, most reliable? (smart) perhaps not, but do-able.. yeh I'm swapped :oops:, but easy hp out of an engine that in the end of the day will not only be capable of more but also more reliable at the same hp was so tempting... but now I have a terrible weight distribution of 53-47 (according to person with same swap who weight his) with AC/PS everything, and I feel terrible =.0, makes all the difference in the world on the street... not. And my engine is period correct too ... somewhat.

And with 10k you'll have a S50B32 + 6 speed... and money left over for w/e...don't know about install $ as I'd do it myself... and why would you have to do a rebuild?

ps. I do realize hp isn't everything.

[Vtec?lol]

You have illustrated my point perfectly. Why the hell would you want to put more power in a Model A or T? It lacks the means to stop as it is, the suspension isn't up to the task nor is the rest of the drive line, not to mention the wooden spoked wheels. Moving on, cars from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, often have plenty of power, and some may or may not have the ability to stop themselves the newer the car, most likely the better it stops. ...... blah blah...... anal speakage... blah........
Like I said, motor swaps are boring and unimaginative. If you want a BMW with an S5x in it, go buy the car that the motor comes with. You will be miles ahead in the long run.

Trolling?
You have to be.
new/modern motor+old car=kick ass. Newer tech, fewer emissions, better reliability, affordability, economy, power, etc...
wtf?
In case of restoring a car to its original former glory, yes. Your thoughts may fly
Building a car to better standards, your opinion needs to be shot down and run over.


On another note...
I fukkin love M20's and I kinda like m42's too. Built M20's are more kick ass than any other engine you could put in an e30. It proves how much BMW's reign supreme. turbo m20, NA m20, no mater what m20 they way they sound and perform is amazing.

[craiggroves91]

Well my last dyno figure was 184kw atw, which is 245hp.

Sorry. Hahahaha.

I call BS. 245 whp?

That means you're at 285-290 crank hp

[Todd Black 88]

I actually quite like my e93 wagon.
Nothing like cruising at 80mph with very little wind noise, heated seats on, panorama sun roof open, heated steering wheel on, listening to one of the hundred CDs I have stored in the hard drive, while my wife reads her texts off the navigation screen, all while knowing my son is safe in the back surrounded by 11 airbags.







Run flats suck though.

[lambo]

I actually quite like my e93 wagon.
Nothing like cruising at 80mph with very little wind noise, heated seats on, panorama sun roof open, heated steering wheel on, listening to one of the hundred CDs I have stored in the hard drive, while my wife reads her texts off the navigation screen, all while knowing my son is safe in the back surrounded by 11 airbags.

I won't lie... that does sound nice. Roadtrips in a lowered, AC less, small E30 do kinda suck. But, around town and in traffic there is nothing else I would want to drive. The sightlines in an E30 are superb.

[AussieTemplar]

I call BS. 245 whp?

That means you're at 285-290 crank hp

Yup. I can find the dyno sheet for you.

This engine cost over $10k to build.

[craiggroves91]

Yup. I can find the dyno sheet for you.

This engine cost over $10k to build.

Alrighty I'd like to see it.

I mean if you put enough money into an m20 it could possibly reach that... I think

[LJ851]

I call BS. 245 whp?

That means you're at 285-290 crank hp

This what 247 M20 rwhp sounds like.




And here it is running a 12 second quarter mile.




Still think its BS?

[BlackbirdM3]

You're not to bright are you? Now who the fuck would do a engine swap in a model T or A and not do the rest of the suspension to accomadate the larger engine? And i guess these guys are boring and unimaginative when they built their cars too...




Moving on.... You say Packard. Lets take a 1950. It has miles of torq? The biggest engine only offered 160hp@3600 and 270lbs.ft.@2000 Thats a real barn stormer!!! Plus most Parkards that are not stock are turned into "la bombas" And they are a cruising car, not a road racer. Something tells me you're a track snob. But lets talk about how a small block looks like a big block! Have you ever took your head out of under a hood of a foreign car to look in a domestic cars engine bay? Cause if you think the two look alike, you need glasses.

As for the Datsuns, i'm not to up on them, so i'll let someone else chime in on those things. And for the BMW swaps, there's plunty of people on here that can chime in and pummel you on your logic about that spew you put out there.

There is very little Model t there. I see a lot of something else, but I can't call that a Model T (or A, or what ever it used to be.) Its a kit car of some sort, but but not even close to the car it started as.

I don't give a crap about American cars. I dislike them all. I take that back, I like Duesenbergs, a few of the Auburns, but since those are rapidly approaching 100 years old, and a basket case one sells for more than I make in a 5 year span, I'm not going to include them. As for all the Muscle cars of the '60s, and the gaudy chrome land yachts of the '50s and early '60s. They are big, ugly and boring. I don't care how much hp they have or how fast they go in a straight line. Do I respect the Ford GT40? Yes, they managed to beat Ferrari at their own game (I'm not a big Ferrari fan either.) Would I want to own or drive one. No thanks, I'll pass. I'd rather drive a Jag E-type or any Alfa Romeo from the same period. I don't care if the American cars were faster. I don't care about how fast a car goes. Seriously who the hell needs 500 hp in a car? You can't use it on the street so whats the point? Bragging rights? Ok, that's fine, you need to compensate for something. Do I want or need an 800hp turbo S14? No, again, can't use it and it will have a lifespan measured in minutes. I happen to like engine lifespans measured in years. A stock S14b25 that makes 230 hp sounds great to me. Heck, a 200 hp S14b23 is fantastic. I don't really need any more go than that.

Like I said, if you need more hp than the stock motor can produce, you bought the wrong car. Simple as that.

No, I'm not a track snob. I do like to vintage race, I like to autoX, but really the only thing I can afford to do is autoX. There are rules that apply to both, and I respect and follow them. I am just sick of seeing cars hacked up to put something else in them when the owners should have sold the car and bought what they really want.


As for new vs old, I'll take old any day of the week. I can work on it, I won't have to replace a whole dash because the touch screen died. I don't want a navigation system to distract me while I'm driving, nor do I need a hands free phone. I'm driving, I'm not going to be talking on the phone. (I usually turn the phone off when I'm driving somewhere.) I don't need things to distract me, there are enough distracted drivers that I have to deal with already. I don't need to add to the problem. Older cars were designed to be fixed, not thrown away. I don't buy a car because I'll want something newer in 5 years. I buy a car so I can drive it, because I like to drive it. If it turns out I don't like driving the car, I'll sell it and buy something I like more, but so far, I've never sold a car that I've driven. (I've only sold one car, it was too much of a project for me to deal with at the time. I never should have bought it in the first place. Lesson learned.) Will I mod the car to make it equal to the variations offered elsewhere in the world as stock? Yes, you bet. The motor will however be correct to the car. I never alter a car in a way that can't be undone like it never happened out of respect for the car its self.

A troll, no, just an opinion. Everyone is entitled to have one.

Will

[Stanley Rockafella]

I won't lie... that does sound nice. Roadtrips in a lowered, AC less, small E30 do kinda suck. But, around town and in traffic there is nothing else I would want to drive. The sightlines in an E30 are superb.

Roadtrips are not for e30's. E30's are meant for drifting around traffic in the city.

For roadtrips, I rent. cheaper than purchasing a newer car and no depreciation to pay for. best of all is no maint. to pay for either