Engine Dilemma

[nando]

so, he wants to make his car a competetive drift car, but still his street car, but he doesn't want it to be reliable?

how much fun do you think it is to go to a track and have the car break down halfway through? races are won with reliability.

just on tuning (computer + dyno) he will end up spending the cost of an S52 swap, not including the turbo, manifold, and other stuff that goes with it, and of course the time wasted putting a turbo on a 200k block that's certainly going to fail.

[ELVA164]

Didn't the OP say he wasn't worried about the reliability of the turbo'd motor because he is swapping in the future anyway?

The way im seeing it is for the money, boosting the m20 is the way to go. I WILL eventually do an m/s5x so im not looking for it to last long or be reliable. So i think i just realized that out of the three key aspects (cost, power, and reliability) I only need the first 2. Am i making sense? I have never owned a car with the same motor in it for more than 2 years... so i guess it makes sense to boost?

[nando]

a 200k m20 on boost is not going to live long (expect the ring lands to fail). and you guys talking about tuning are forgetting a major part of that - dyno tuning. that could cost a pretty big chunk of change, and you want to do it right or if you don't, you end up like those 9/10 people who blow up their motors and don't have a clue as to why.

also, streetable, competetive drift car? You might want to rethink that.

[Nick_S]

M50+S50 cams and a few mods? I really don't know much about these engine.

[kingston]

Vivek,

There may well be a few people who are rocking big HP numbers on a bone-stock engine, but throwing that much power at a motor without looking at some key areas is asking for trouble. For every KAmotors story, there are 10 from people who've popped their HG, or caused other significant failures. The OP had his car dyno'd at 137hp, suggesting that it is beginning to get tired.

CAN you make 400 hp on a stock motor? Yes. Will it last? Not unless you have built it very well and are very lucky. Do you have to strengthen the motor? Not if you don't mind having to rebuild it.

You said you'd save a few bills for a spare motor. Why not put that into maintenance on the M20? There are many ways to do this, but I'm a fan of doing things right the first time, and not having to swap out a motor because I didn't. Your mileage may vary!

[Vivek]

OrangeFiero,

What you are missing is the fact that you will also need to refresh and strengthen your M20, which is not inexpensive. My guess would be that it is pretty tired, and throwing boost at it will hasten it's early demise.

Plus, with boost, seems like a good idea to use the BEST parts you can, not the CHEAPEST parts. Chinese Ebay turbo shit is just that...shit. Also keep in mind that these things never go as smoothly as you think they will. There are ALWAYS things that pop up that you haven't factored into the cost...

Having said that, buying a used S52 may land you in the same boat. You never TRULY know what you are going to get, but if you are going to buy an S52/M50, etc, make sure at the VERY least that you have compression #s on the engine.

Good luck with your build!!

I have to admit, I don't know much about turbos. But I do know that KAmotors is pushing over 450whp on a completely stock m20 with a 22 year old head gasket. The only mods to that motor are head bolts, and he did them one by one without pulling the head. Basically, a turbo setup needs a turbo (anywhere from $100-1000, maybe $4-500 for a decent one), a waste gate and bov (lets say $200), a manifold (I've seen $80-800, maybe $250?) intercooler and piping ($300), engine management (like $250 for an RRFPR and up to $800 for MS), and then a wideband, gauges (boost, oil pressure), and some exhaust work. It can be done for under 2k depending on how you go about it. You can buy a full used setup that was proven on a car, with MS and even an exhaust for around 2 grand. That can put you at 400whp on a stock engine (although I'd shell out a few bills for a spare m20). I'm just naming prices based on what I've seen, but I think that at least saying that strengthening an m20 is absolutely necessary is not true, based on what KAmotors has done (something like 24-28psi, off the top of my head).

[Northern]

Since he's looking for cheap, I'd say an M30 is definitely an option. M60 could be good there too.

[dannyyisntt]

Clearly what your looking for is an m30 swap

[kingston]

OrangeFiero,

What you are missing is the fact that you will also need to refresh and strengthen your M20, which is not inexpensive. My guess would be that it is pretty tired, and throwing boost at it will hasten it's early demise.

Plus, with boost, seems like a good idea to use the BEST parts you can, not the CHEAPEST parts. Chinese Ebay turbo shit is just that...shit. Also keep in mind that these things never go as smoothly as you think they will. There are ALWAYS things that pop up that you haven't factored into the cost...

Having said that, buying a used S52 may land you in the same boat. You never TRULY know what you are going to get, but if you are going to buy an S52/M50, etc, make sure at the VERY least that you have compression #s on the engine.

Good luck with your build!!

[bastianshaw]

OP dont take this the wrong way but you have at least 20 solid hrs of reading to do before asking questions like this

[OrangeFiero]

How will it cost more? I have it clocked at about 2k and thats getting as much as i can used but getting decent turbo and ms2... what am i missing with cost?

[pandaboo911]

stock s52 will make 210whp
turbo m20 will make easily twice that, but it'll also cost atleast twice as much as the s52 swap.

I would go with the s52

[OrangeFiero]

The way im seeing it is for the money, boosting the m20 is the way to go. I WILL eventually do an m/s5x so im not looking for it to last long or be reliable. So i think i just realized that out of the three key aspects (cost, power, and reliability) I only need the first 2. Am i making sense? I have never owned a car with the same motor in it for more than 2 years... so i guess it makes sense to boost?

[I8UR911]

+1 for S52.....and even then you'll need additional mods if you're looking for 250 at the wheels. Plan on spending about $3k-$4k for your swap.

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[jlevie]

If you are looking for around 250hp, an S52 will be the cheapest option.