BMW E30 vs MB 190E 2.3-16V?

[Fusion]

The 2.3/16 is like an E30 mtech car. For that it's overpriced. The M3 is much MUCH closer to DTM spec (more of a race car).
The Evo cars are worderful, but even more rare and expensive than e30.s14.

To sum it up, not a huge fan. Fan of the DTM cars.
As I've stated before, the 2.3/16 is a people mover that can be taken to the track. The M3 is a track car that can be used as a people mover.

[reelizmpro]

For those not in the US...keep in mind that the US version came fully loaded with power everything and sls...and the engine detuned down to 167 hp (same as 325i). Also most were automatic. This is the only version the US got officially although there are euro greymarket cars that have been imported, you will not find genuine evos floating around. The US M3s also came fully loaded but horsepower was virtually the same at 192. The euro 2.3 16 is impressive but the M3 still has more HP (much more with a simple chip) and is lighter. This being said, at 2-5k it is a hell of a car for the price but its performance is more on.par with a 325i and concidentally so are the prices, which makes sense.

I know it seems like im ragging on the Merc but thats my conclusion and would still pick one up for the right price but I like BMW's more and beyond 5 figures would rather pick up M3's.

[Alpina]

Ok,, i was not aware that the difference was so much US vs EURO 2.3-16

how is it,, was the 2.5 available in the states

[Fusion]

Thanks for clearing that up.
What turns me off is what MB did/does to potentially awesome cars. Like AMG's lacking manual transmissions. Take the W202 for example. They make a 3.6 R6, 4.3 V8 and 5.5 V8 - a wet dream for anyone lazy/unwilling to swap, but they throw auto trans at all of them. Dampened steering and double wishbone front aren't really much of a driver experience either. The only thing that they did right were hydraulically activated (automatic) limited slip diffs, that can easily be mod'd to be manual. I wish BMW had those or they could be swapped over (not impossible).
Of course it comes down to preference in the end. I'm also not a fan of sedans, so it would be hard to convince me to buy a Mercosworth.

[reelizmpro]

No 2.5's for MB or BMW. Only fully loaded standard 2.3 liters.

The difference is large but it can be overcome. You can shave weight, go with megasquirt efi, etc and make a much improved car but it is the road less traveled with less support so you are pretty much on your own and of course emissions testing is always an issue if you live in a major city.

[E30_Pare]

i still see the m3 as a pure performance car seeing how bmw built it as a track car, and only had it on the market to meet the requirements to compete. The glory of the cossy is that in bear bone form its a 190 chassis. As in everything is interchangeable within all models.

[reelizmpro]

Mercedes felt the w201 was so good, they didnt have to modify it much aerodynamically until the 2nd evolution and they were right...it was good. It had a lower drag coefficient than the e30 m3. This advantage was likely negated by the extra weight though depending on the track.

[Beau B]

Cool cars but MB just never have appealed to me.

[Hooffenstein HD]

I don't mind the W201 shape but Mercedes ruins everything with automatic transmissions.

Maybe an M30B35/Getrag 265 swapped W201 would interest me.

[R3Z3N]

Dampened steering and double wishbone front aren't really much of a driver experience either.

Actually, the double wishbone front is preferable over a MacPherson strut as you can tune many more aspects of the geometry. Macpherson struts have the advantage in size, and simplicity.

[E30_Pare]

Mercedes felt the w201 was so good, they didnt have to modify it much aerodynamically until the 2nd evolution and they were right...it was good. It had a lower drag coefficient than the e30 m3. This advantage was likely negated by the extra weight though depending on the track.

that makes sense as crosswinds dont bother me as much as the e30 lol.

[naplesE30]

apm said it: Damn near 30yrs of automotive praise and motorsport succes for the m3 goes a long way. Everyone knows what an m3 is. My wife, father-in -law, sister, dog you name it. They dont know what an e30 is but they know an m3 is a special car.

Who has heard of a 190e 2.3-16 cosworth.

Hell even a c class amg has much less brand awarness then the m3, plus the e30m3 has got a lot of praise as of late in motortrend r&t etc as a 10 best alltime car. Even bmw has been pushing the e30 chassis as I have seen it in a lot of their advertising as of late praising the lineage of the 3 series.

[Alpina]

Just an useless info..

the W201 is the most succesful racingcar on the Nürburgring in DTM ,,,,,

the 2.5 AMG version was 382 hp ,,,,,,, and the S14 ,, never matched those numbers,,
the S14 was in other hand a lot more reliable vs the Cosworth engine,,

on Mercedes car,, mechanics often/sometimes changed engine between qualifying and race,,

on the straight,, you can see on many youtube videos,, that the w201 is clearly faster,,

but in other hand the E30 M3 is the most succesful Racing car of all time.. thats a record that will not be broken soon

[totheredline]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANv83OJk--4

This guy thinks the 190e has more of a "cool" factor.

[Alpina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANv83OJk--4
This guy thinks the 190e has more of a "cool" factor.

That car is a EURO version of the 2.3-16