Running on fumes....actually works!

[mrsleeve]

You want to look into something for fuel economy

Hot cycle engine, designed by the master Smokey Yunick, our modern engine engineers only wish they knew what he forgot about engine building and theory

[nando]

Just get an electric supercharger or one those turbinator things. Also, magnets.

[KI4UJO]

Well r3v, he isn't wrong, but he isn't right. I have a push mower that I run using this technology. If you think about a gasoline engine, it is an air pump. It draws in air and pushes it out. Now, why would you push liquid into an air pump? This is what you do every day. However, this works much differently. Basically, when the engine draws in air during the intake stroke, it is therefore forced to pull its air from the container. The only openings in the container are the two tubes, which run to the bottom of the container (therefore their ends are covered in fuel). Air drawn through the fuel, which creates the characteristic bubbles of fuel vaporizers, is mixed with fuel vapor and drawn into the intake. However, in my experience, I have not yet reached the levels of economy noted below. Also, if you are afraid of heating gasoline, DO NOT build one of these. My vaporizer sets around 1 in. away from the exhaust outlet on the mower and reaches around 175 degrees according to my laser thermometer.

As for the history of this device, look up two things: the Pogue Carburetor and Tom Ogle. Both were stopped from reaching production in various ways. Also, as mentioned above, there is the Smokey Yunick Hot Cycle Engine. That is an extremely innovative piece of machinery.

For reference, here is an early prototype of mine. If I remember correctly, I was running gas/water at the time. I have also used e85, bad gas (with floating rust chunks), gas/cooking oil, and water/e85.

Feel free to ask anything about this. I'm happy to answer.

[McGyver]

Basically, when the engine draws in air during the compression stroke, it is therefore forced to pull its air from the container.

Based on the fact that you obviously don't which stroke is which, I call bullshit.

[KI4UJO]

Based on the fact that you obviously don't which stroke is which, I call bullshit.

Thank you for pointing that out. This is why I probably shouldn't write these type of things when I'm tired. Aside from the fact that I wrote compression instead of intake, what other problems do you have with this? I'm happy to answer.

[nando]

I have a major issue - it's called thermodynamics.

[Wschnitz]

I have a major issue - it's called thermodynamics.

This

also, I dont find spreading fuel all over all of my intake parts a good thing, and I highly doubt you would come out with anything near the same horsepower with this rednecking.

[McGyver]

Thank you for pointing that out. This is why I probably shouldn't write these type of things when I'm tired. Aside from the fact that I wrote compression instead of intake, what other problems do you have with this? I'm happy to answer.

Ok, the flash point for gasoline is -45F. (Flash point - the minimum temperature for a substance to produce enough vapors to ignite.) so any temperature above -45F will produce enough flammable vapors to ignite. That is why you are able to run an engine off of a "vaporizer". That is also why you can run the engine with water (or any other substance) in the gasoline.

HOWEVER, the concentration of gasoline vapors in the intake air has to be between 1.4% and 7.6%. Any more or less and you won't get combustion.

You're not getting amazing fuel economy or any sort of magical boost by running your intake air through gasoline, you're just mixing the fuel with the air in an uncontrolled and inefficient manner. Any claim that it is possible to produce the same output power for significantly less initial energy is a complete lie. It is not physically possible to conserve engine power while reducing the amount of energy put into the system without making the engine significantly more efficient. A "vaporizer" does not increase efficiency, therefore any claims of increased performance, or efficiency, violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

[smooth]

Well r3v, he isn't wrong, but he isn't right. I have a push mower that I run using this technology. If you think about a gasoline engine, it is an air pump. It draws in air and pushes it out. Now, why would you push liquid into an air pump? This is what you do every day.

the running theme of people talking about this like it works is that some seem to think that engines use liquid fuel to run. Then they think they can "thin" the fuel and still get it to run. But engines don't run off liquid fuel...at least not efficiently.

In the olden days we had to manually adjust carbs but now fuel atomization is handled by a computer and fuel injectors. You'd be hard pressed to get a better air:fuel ratio by hand. You and the guy with the video could achieve what you're experimenting with by leaning out the carburetor. It won't make your engine run better but if you're simply interested in fuel economy and idling up and down the road (or light patches of grass on the lawn) then you might be able to eek out some fuel savings. You'd probably get better results cleaning and rebuilding your carb, though.

[nando]

if you lean it out too much it will actually use more fuel per unit of power output, not to mention the levels of pollutants out the tailpipe actually increases.

[dnguyen1963]

IF it is too good to be true...well, we all know the saying.

[KI4UJO]

I should point out, I never said that this worked WELL, I just said that it works. After seeing some of these videos, I wanted to try it. I really don't see the problem there. If nothing else, I can use fuel in this mower that I would normally be unable to use (such as the year-old rusty fuel). I don't believe I ever claimed to achieve massive fuel savings by using this device. (Besides ,the best fuel saving devices ever invented go by 2 names: your right foot and proper maintenance.) I am familiar with carburetor adjustment as well, having rebuilt and tuned three quadrajets (for a 1974 and 1975 corvette). It is possible to lean out the carb to achieve better economy, but performance will suffer.

At the end of the day, it was simply something that I wanted to try and something that I will continue to work with, even if it is for nothing more than utilizing old fuel to mow around my house. However, due to previous efforts at this technology, I believe that more can be done. That video is outdated compared to my current setup anyway, which gives me more precise adjustment of my Air/Fuel ratio.

[Liquidity]

In the olden days we had to manually adjust carbs but now fuel atomization is handled by a computer and fuel injectors.

The problem everyone is having is believing the fuel is actually atomized when it comes out of the injector. No EFI systems truly atomize the fuel. They are just really small droplets of liquid. The high pressure direct injection systems make the finest droplets but it's still the heat and turbulence of the squish on the compression stroke that does most of the work to atomize the fuel but it's still not efficient.


As governments force engines to become even cleaner and more efficient I'm sure we'll even see direct injection fade away and all of the theories in this thread will eventually become reality.

[nando]

precise what? do you have a wideband hooked up to your lawn mower? lol

[nando]

The problem everyone is having is believing the fuel is actually atomized when it comes out of the injector. No EFI systems truly atomize the fuel. They are just really small droplets of liquid. The high pressure direct injection systems make the finest droplets but it's still the heat and turbulence of the squish on the compression stroke that does most of the work to atomize the fuel but it's still not efficient.


As governments force engines to become even cleaner and more efficient I'm sure we'll even see direct injection fade away and all of the theories in this thread will eventually become reality.

actually if you go deeper into the theory you will see that fuel is usually injected on to the back of a hot intake valve. there is a amount of time before the valve opens that you want to spray the fuel so it has time to evaporate and mix with the air coming down the manifold.