E30 Touring Values

[crash n' burn]

I'd like to think that the optioned-out 325ix will continue to fetch around 12k for a very good, average mileage, example with a lengthy history..but i think thats the top dollar for these cars. yes, most tourings are fairly resonalby price here for good examples starting at 2500 euros(.94:1 on the dollar right now), but these are your 316/318 cars. A 320 can be thrown in the same price range although with considerable more mileage or less options. Where the real money is though are factory 325 cars that were loaded..which still command pretty good money. Factor in shipping and import fees, you could possibly get a 4cyl over to the states for about $5500 all in and have a decent car that need the usual maintenance.

Now these are your run of the mill tourings. For a car to be worth it to me, it would have to have a lot going for it and the price would reflect that. I lucked out and found mine down in Munich..in great condition, low/average miles, and with quite a bit done to it that made it more desireable in my opinion. I wont disclose what I paid for it(basically paid for parts and got a free car), but I got a pretty damn good deal on it; and, if I were to ever sell it at this point in time, I'd like to think I would be able to walk away from it with $11k in my pocket.

Thats just me though, I love this little wagon and I doubt it'll be leaving my possession anytime soon.

[mbonder]

I think the problem with a lot of the tourings that are coming into the US now is that they don't have A/C, which depending upon where you're located is a true deal killer. In NJ where I am, you get about 3-4 good weeks of nice weather in the spring and then it turns to high 80's low 90's and 80+% humidity, which means you are drenched without A/C regardless of how many windows you've got rolled down and how fast you are moving.

That coupled with the fact that they can be legally imported into the country now means that the supply is only going to increase, which means that prices will decrease. Unless the car is optioned out, I don't see it selling for much more than a clean coupe/sedan sells for, it's not really a special model anymore...

[crash n' burn]

you can go ahead and give up on the idea of a/c in a european spec car. i'd assume like 75-85% were delivered without it and the ones that did have them..well, most either don't work and/or were removed.

[Kershaw]

4 months (iirc?) ago there was a calypso touring 325ix on ebay.de that I considered buying. 3300 euro, buy it now. Black sport interior, manual, and working AC. And it was in good shape. Might have even had smoked headlights. Figure $3500 for the car + $1500 for shipping. It was local sale only, but I have friends and family in Germany, and a friend was willing to pick it up and ship it.

Needless to say, I debated about it one day longer than I should have and it was gone.

[crash n' burn]

Yeah, it's not rare for a real gem to pop up for a steal every now and again; I would have jumped on that if I had the money.

[roguetoaster]

I think the problem with a lot of the tourings that are coming into the US now is that they don't have A/C, which depending upon where you're located is a true deal killer. In NJ where I am, you get about 3-4 good weeks of nice weather in the spring and then it turns to high 80's low 90's and 80+% humidity, which means you are drenched without A/C regardless of how many windows you've got rolled down and how fast you are moving.

That coupled with the fact that they can be legally imported into the country now means that the supply is only going to increase, which means that prices will decrease. Unless the car is optioned out, I don't see it selling for much more than a clean coupe/sedan sells for, it's not really a special model anymore...

I think you are simply dead wrong about no A/C being a deal breaker. I'm not even a decade out of school and I grew up in vehicles without A/C and houses with window A/C at most. It's just not a big deal for 60% of the country. Is A/C nice to have, sure, but should the lack of it prevent you from buying something you want? Hell no, sweat a little, pack a spare shirt with some deodorant and learn to live with your environment, not in opposition to it.

While supply will increase in the US, which will drag prices down for some time it also means that demand increases overseas which means that prices go up there. When prices go up there, they will also go up here, and as the quantity of product is limited and decreasing they will always command slightly higher prices versus other E30s. On top of that, with condition being the same vs a coupe/sedan, buyers will understand that they have to pay some extra because one of the previous owners imported it and passed that cost on.

[mbonder]

I think you are simply dead wrong about no A/C being a deal breaker. I'm not even a decade out of school and I grew up in vehicles without A/C and houses with window A/C at most. It's just not a big deal for 60% of the country. Is A/C nice to have, sure, but should the lack of it prevent you from buying something you want? Hell no, sweat a little, pack a spare shirt with some deodorant and learn to live with your environment, not in opposition to it.

While supply will increase in the US, which will drag prices down for some time it also means that demand increases overseas which means that prices go up there. When prices go up there, they will also go up here, and as the quantity of product is limited and decreasing they will always command slightly higher prices versus other E30s. On top of that, with condition being the same vs a coupe/sedan, buyers will understand that they have to pay some extra because one of the previous owners imported it and passed that cost on.

Not to sound insulting, because I don't want to be but you're not old enough to understand what I'm talking about. Go ask someone who is 40+ whether they'd spend $12k+ on a vehicle without A/C or spend that same $12k+ on a vehicle with A/C. Guarantee 9 out of 10 people will choose A/C all day. The problem is that converting a non-A/C car to A/C isn't exactly cheap or easy. This isn't like you're buying a $3k car where you expect it to have some issues, like not having A/C. If I'm spending the equivalent of two decent e30 coupe/sedans (which will have A/C), I'm going to expect a little more out of the vehicle, including A/C. In this case, the vehicle that I'd want would be the touring that has A/C, and I'd be willing to hold onto my money and wait for that vehicle to show up.

I think your second paragraph speaks to the fact that the touring is probably going to drop in price so that it is only 15-25% premium over the standard e30 coupe/sedan. It will always command more because it offers more, especially a loaded model. Eventually the import costs will be so far in the past and there will be enough of them in the country that it will be irrelevant.

[roguetoaster]

Not to sound insulting, because I don't want to be but you're not old enough to understand what I'm talking about. Go ask someone who is 40+ whether they'd spend $12k+ on a vehicle without A/C or spend that same $12k+ on a vehicle with A/C. Guarantee 9 out of 10 people will choose A/C all day. The problem is that converting a non-A/C car to A/C isn't exactly cheap or easy. This isn't like you're buying a $3k car where you expect it to have some issues, like not having A/C. If I'm spending the equivalent of two decent e30 coupe/sedans (which will have A/C), I'm going to expect a little more out of the vehicle, including A/C. In this case, the vehicle that I'd want would be the touring that has A/C, and I'd be willing to hold onto my money and wait for that vehicle to show up.

I think your second paragraph speaks to the fact that the touring is probably going to drop in price so that it is only 15-25% premium over the standard e30 coupe/sedan. It will always command more because it offers more, especially a loaded model. Eventually the import costs will be so far in the past and there will be enough of them in the country that it will be irrelevant.

I do understand what you are referring to, and the creep of wanting more comfort/features out of a car is even getting to me. However, tourings may be advertised in the 12k+ range, but they do not often trade hands at that price without A/C. For example, of my three tourings, none have A/C, and retrofitting is between $1500-2000 depending on who does the work (because I won't be bothered). Tourings are a niche vehicle, and generally are the buyers 2nd, 3rd or more vehicle, so the lack of A/C does not generally impact them.

It seems to me that the import costs will continue to increase (simple shipping costs), and therefore will continually be factored in to the price of a touring (presuming it's condition does not worsen markedly).

As it sits it is difficult to arrange purchase/import of a touring for below $5,000 (including fees), and iXs seem to start at around 8. Then there is the inevitable work required to bring the car up to some semblance of working order once it arrives. For example, my first touring needed a fuel pump/tires/battery right out of the box, and I was charged a bit extra for them to handle the disabled car. The second was less trouble, but was experiencing a stuck thermostat upon arrival. The third had a dead battery again, and needed wheels, tires and front seats. In addition to that I could not get the transport for the third car arranged in time and paid a very minimal storage fee (something like $12).

These are in addition to the variances in shipping/insurance costs, if you go to the customs house and do the paperwork vs. having your shipper do it and various titling expenses such as certified translations of the title. The simple fact of the matter is that shipping/import/titling/shipping within the US if needed will vary in cost up to a few thousand dollars, which is part of the unusual price patterns we see on tourings.

[cory58]

I'm only 48 years old and my first 2 cars were non A/C: 1966 Mustang in humid Memphis and 1968 Cutlass conv. in hot TX. Did I survive? Of course. Did I hate not having A/C and drove my girlfriends' air-conditioned cars as much as possible? Yes. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I don't blame someone who is trying to sell 2 Tourings without A/C for having an "A/C is not important" opinion, but the reality is most people want A/C. That being said, I agree with Rougetoaster that people are buying a Touring as a 2nd or 3rd car, and therefore, will be more likely to either put up with no A/C or deal with the hassle of adding it. These will always be niche vehicles in the USA.

Regarding salability and effect on price, I can only draw conclusions from my own experience. I looked for a Touring for over a year and chose not to pursue probably 10 nice cars because they did not have A/C (and I did not want to deal with adding it). When I found one with A/C, I paid a premium for it.