lol BMW

[J.Rizo]

I've driven old bmws and I've driven a lot of new ones.

as much as I love the way an E30 feels, if you're a busy person (student, business owner, work 80 hours a week, etc) sometimes you just don't have the time to maintain an E30 as a daily driver. sometimes you just can't beat the peace of mind you get from a brand new car.

now, whether that brand new car has to be a bmw or not is up to the individual consumer. however, say what you want about newer bmws, they're still a great option with all things considered imo. and no matter what manufacturer you go with, they've all gone down a similar path, so theres no escaping the technological gimmicks if you're getting a new car, its choosing between the lesser of all the evils. and honestly, new cars aren't THAT bad. if you drive an f30 expecting it to feel like an e30 of course you're going to be disappointed. you have to appreciate anything for what it is.

it is what it is. theres no real point in comparing new cars to old cars.

if BMW made BMW branded rocks, people would buy them and say they were awesome.

I'd respect the bmw rock owners more than I respect any douche bag that wears those awful bmw motorsport jackets, those are definitely worse than bmw rocks lol

[jtparts]

I have an e30 cab, going on 10 years, it's my favorite car ever, I've had ss454 el caminos, tr6, miata, 00 mustang gt, xke, and lots of unnotables. Every time I go somewhere in my e30 I get excited pulling out of the garage. I bought an e39 540 expecting something akin to a big brother to the e30. Nope. The 540 is quick, sounds bad ass, uses copious amounts of petrol and almost always sits as the e30 backs out. Now the e39 chassis is lauded as one of the best but I just find the car boring. The direction BMW has taken has a lot to do with how they forsee climate legislation impacting the performance segment overall. First and foremost they need to be viable going forward. So they are working to produce sales and have done a great job so far. Ask any new model owner that isn't an enthusiast and they generally love their BMW. Of course the question is do they love the car or what it represents? It's only those of us that know the BMW that was that raise our voices in disapproval of the feelingless cars that share the roundel and little else with our own beloved models.

[Kevinl]

I bought my E90 because I needed 4 doors and A/C that actually cooled not just pretended to like the e30

It is way faster in a straight line and probably in corners too but its not a fun experience like the e30

[lukeADE335i]

This is why I'll probably never buy a BMW past an e46.

For something newer to haul the family in and still have some fun I'd just give in and buy a V8 Commodore SSV down here (effectively the short lived aussie built Pontiac G8 ).

6.2L LS3 motor in a chassis suspiciously similar to an e39 & can be had with either 6 speed manual or auto & Brembo brakes. Because it's a domestic product, the electronics really are only to around late-90's BMW specs, but with a limited number of mod-cons that you might actually want like bluetooth music streaming, phone hands free etc.

No autonomous driving crap. The semi-autonomous 7 series just got a terrible review down here in Wheels Magazine.

[88BlackS-ETA]

sure, BMW is a business - it's a business built on selling a specific type of car. When they start selling FWD minivans and 5 different crossovers and 4,000lb "M" cars, they've lost the fucking plot. The fake engine noises pretty much illustrates exactly where BMW is these days.

as somebody in another forum stated, if BMW made BMW branded rocks, people would buy them and say they were awesome. But that doesn't mean they are good.

Honestly though, I've never understood the point of an M3 convertible - from any generation. That the M4 convertible is even that much more numb and pointless doesn't help anything.

BMW is riding on momentum from their past cars that people remember driving. They can't keep churning out cars that drive worse than a Camry, cost twice as much, and are as reliable as a 1990's Jaguar forever. We can deal with high costs and poor reliability if the things actually drive well. But they don't - you can get better handling & steering feel from a Lexus or a Mustang.

Perfectly put.

[E30 Wagen]

I love e30s to death, but when I add up how much I've spent fixing old BMWs in the last 5 years, I wish I had just saved up for a brand new 228i with a 6 speed and sport package. It'd still cost more, but sometimes I just want to be done killing weekends swapping blown engines or dealing with NLA parts.

But I do agree about BMW chasing these ridiculous niche markets. It's crazy how many different models there are.

[marshallnoise]

I think people are missing the point...BMWs are largely leased. Therefore people can get tired of them and trade them in in 3 years. I don't blame those folks. You don't have to live with the car forever.

If you do live with the car forever, you begin to appreciate build quality and simplicity: hence, us.

[nando]

the funny thing is the E90 guys will say how much of a "drivers car" it is and how the F30 feels "sterile" in comparison. lol

I know better - my E90 330i is a luxobarge. But it makes a great DD and it does still have that great BMW steering and smooth inline engine with a 6 speed manual. When you lose the steering feel and handling all you have is an expensive Lexus, only it's broken all the time.

[stonea]

BMW is riding on momentum from their past cars that people remember driving. They can't keep churning out cars that drive worse than a Camry, cost twice as much, and are as reliable as a 1990's Jaguar forever. We can deal with high costs and poor reliability if the things actually drive well. But they don't - you can get better handling & steering feel from a Lexus or a Mustang.

I completely agree with this. Didn't BMW try and basically say the new 2 series is the 2002 reincarnated in one of their TV ads? Also I don't think its coincidence that every time a new M3 comes out BMW does a photoshoot with the e30 M3. And don't get me started on their CSL homage. That wasn't a homage that was publicity stunt.

I think the biggest problem with BMW (and most modern cars) is the unnecessary crap. I got to drive my friends e90 for a day and it had a lot of extra crap I didn't want, need, or even use, but people think the gadgets and gizmos are cool so it sells. It was so big, heavy, and sterile it was a shame. At least my friends Lexus is fun to drive, the BMW felt like they were designing a self driving car, but didn't finish it.

I'm not saying they need to sell a 1980s car, but look at the BRZ and MX5. Its a light weight fun sports car with modern day safety and technology. Its just missing all of the BS that adds weight.

[e30onBBSs]

I think BMW has definitely strayed away from the quality/reliability of the 80's (m20) but to say they suck is wrong IMO.

Getting into my friends 535xi I was astonished at how comfortable and quiet the car is. The suspension keeps the car smooth as can be, and when he got his foot in it wow! The suspension is for cruising but damn as an all around car that was amazing and so solid. That's what BMW wants to make. A car that feels great and smooth and you want to take for long drives, but is also fun as fuck when you want it to be, safe, smooth, quiet etc.

Maybe we are all jaded because we want to go faster and louder and strip the doors and ABS sucks more turbos and skid plates all that shit. We are not the people who bmw is really marketing to at all, and never did. I like the e30 because of how it feels, and how it was made. One case like the e30 chassis could be a reason to expect the same feel forever, but that's an unrealistic expectation. New BMW's are still awesome cars with all the electronic wizardry, and the ///m cars would put a massive grin on most of our faces I'm sure.

But comparing a BMW crossover to the whole brand is wrong. No shit we we aren't going to like that thing! When I think BMW I think rwd i6 2 doors not high off the ground etc (e30) (e92) what have you. This car is for moms and the dad who doesn't want to buy a minivan and has the $ to get a sweet car compared to a mini van. So really it's all a perspective of the people buying NEW bmw's and what they want. Bmw kills it because they give people whay they want, whether or not r3v or carthrottle thinks it's good.

They still make cars with the e30 mentality but so much has changed that they would be stupid not to implement the new technology and increase the weight etc. At the end of the day it's a capatilist business and making lightweight airbag less cars with minimal tech is not going to sell sadly

[varg]

...but Europe had a convertible e30 m3?

Still stupid if you think of it as a "Motorsport" derived version of the car. Just because it's an E30 doesn't mean I will harbor any love for it and change my view.

[nando]

Convertible E30 M3 is only cool because of the rarity. It's still stupid as an M3.

as far as BMW not having to care about "enthusiasts" - you missed my point. BMW got the reputation it has today by making cars that were practical and sporty to drive - you could have a sedan that was faster than most supercars (M5) and still take your kids to school in it. Then you could rip on it at the track if you'd like to. Road feel, responsiveness, handling were just part of the engineering that made the cars great.

It has nothing to do with "enthusiasts". There was probably never a time when they were the primary market factor for BMW - it's always been people who can afford to pay for the cars. E30s were the playground of yuppies from the 80's, they didn't care about the performance either - but as it turned out, the cars were actually quite good too!

[McGyver]

Of course a convertible M car definitely doesn't make any sense at all if you look at it from the perspective of the beginning of "M."

...but Europe had a convertible e30 m3?

[varg]

Finally, an automotive "journalist" who feels like I do about the crossover takeover. They are dumb as hell.

That's because for 95% of people buying a BMW new from the dealer, it's not about handling/suspension/brakes/engine performance or any other measurement that an enthusiast would employ. Buying a BMW has become only about it having a Roundel on the front and the back as well as some nonsensical nomenclature on the fenders or trunk not entirely related to the drivetrain.

Quoted for truth. Like so much else in the world, BMWs are an upscale product bought primarily to show others that you are able to buy upscale products. When it comes to business, money trumps principals every time, so BMW gave up on "driver's cars" and started making moneymakers ages ago.

sure, BMW is a business - it's a business built on selling a specific type of car. When they start selling FWD minivans and 5 different crossovers and 4,000lb "M" cars, they've lost the fucking plot. The fake engine noises pretty much illustrates exactly where BMW is these days.

as somebody in another forum stated, if BMW made BMW branded rocks, people would buy them and say they were awesome. But that doesn't mean they are good.

Honestly though, I've never understood the point of an M3 convertible - from any generation. That the M4 convertible is even that much more numb and pointless doesn't help anything.

BMW is riding on momentum from their past cars that people remember driving. They can't keep churning out cars that drive worse than a Camry, cost twice as much, and are as reliable as a 1990's Jaguar forever. We can deal with high costs and poor reliability if the things actually drive well. But they don't - you can get better handling & steering feel from a Lexus or a Mustang.

I agree with everything you said here, except for the last but. BMW is doing a great job of making what the average "luxury" buyer wants. They're big, gaudy, comfortable cars that scream "Get out of my way, I can afford a BMW." The enthusiast market is small, nobody really cares about it, people who want a badge that means success to them to bolster their egos, and BMW is delivering. I seriously doubt they will do anything but gain market share and break their sales records.

"M" barely means a thing now. People see "M" and think "expensive and fast." They want a BMW, but not just a regular BMW like that retail manager down the street, no - I'm a corporate consultant, I need an "M." It's not Motorsport it's Marketing. Of course a convertible M car definitely doesn't make any sense at all if you look at it from the perspective of the beginning of "M." It's stupid! It's heavier, sloppier, louder, than a fixed roof car... You do a bunch of stuff to it to make it fast and then un-do half of it by making it limp and hundreds of pounds heavier. But it makes perfect sense from the Marketing perspective. What's a better way to flaunt your wealth than to buy the most expensive version of a car they make? Everyone knows M is more expensive, everyone knows convertibles are more expensive - wow that person has a lot of money!

Crossovers though... ugh *shudders*
Oh how I hate crossovers.

[McGyver]

Honestly though, I've never understood the point of an M3 convertible - from any generation. That the M4 convertible is even that much more numb and pointless doesn't help anything.

You know, I'm tempted to agree with you, but I really do like the idea of an M3 convertible. It has the ability to do fun top down cruising but also has the bigger engine and brakes, as well as the styling of the flashy fast car. Obviously it'll never be a killer on the track, but it's still a good toy.

That being said, I REALLY don't understand the difference between the 3 and 4 series now, or the 5 and 6 series. The 3 series is a 4 door car, a 4 series is a 2 door car unless you get the gran coupe? The 6 is a 2 door car unless you get a gran coupe and now its a strange 5/7 series? The 3 comes as both a wagon and an fugly hatch? WTF are they doing?!? It's the same as Plymouth, Dodge, and Chrysler all building the same minivan with different trim levels in each badge and all competing with each other. It's just fucking insane.